THE US, THE UN AND THE IRAQIS THEMSELVES, V. 7.0

Everyone seemed to be appalled at Putin's handling of the hostage situation in the theatre. I admired his grit. It is true that a lot of friendlies died that day and of course it is tragic. But not one died because of Putin's decision not to cave in to terrorist demands... they died at the hands of the terrorists themselves. Putin's behavior essentially put out the notice; "If you attack our innocent people, it is always a suicide mission". We'll never no how many Russian would-be hostage takers sh!t-can the idea as soon as it's suggested because they know their own death would be the result. Any weakness shown in the Zero-Tolerance for terrorism policy encourages terrorism. The more weakness shown, the more rational terrorism becomes.

Bill,

I say this respectfully. I feel you arguing for the sake of argument. Understand that as much as I enjoy a good argument, my horror and my opposition to what is happening in Iraq is real. There are real people dying and I accept the argument that things may get better (although I disagree), it is clear that right now things are getting worse.

Please give it up with this "thugs in LA" crap.

When there are suicide bombings in LA, deliberate attacks targeting police that kill hundreds, rocket attacks on foreign buildings and significant public support for insurgents (not gangs) you will have a point.

Read what is happening, and understand why many of us are horrified and angry.

CNN news

I apologize, but this debate is getting me more upset than ever as this is sadly much more than a intellectual discussion. I don't think there is any more to say.

When there are suicide bombings in LA, deliberate attacks targeting police that kill hundreds, rocket attacks on foreign buildings and significant public support for insurgents (not gangs) you will have a point.

White House director of postwar policy for Iraq to step down

(11-06) 09:34 PST WASHINGTON (AP) --

The White House's director of postwar policy for Iraq, who was instrumental in helping to set up an interim government to lead that country until elections can be held, is stepping down.

Robert Blackwill, a former ambassador to India, has overseen Iraq strategy at the National Security Council since mid-2003. He decided "some time ago" to depart government service after the presidential election, a White House official, speaking on condition of anonymity, said Saturday.

Blackwill's departure was first reported Saturday in The Washington Post. It was the second report in two days of a ranking official's decision to leave the Bush administration's national security establishment.

On Friday, the State Department confirmed the impending departure of J. Cofer Black, the department's chief counterterrorism figure. Like Blackwill, the former CIA operations officer had told superiors he planned to leave after the elections, and department spokesman Adam Ereli said he will end his 30-year government career in a matter of weeks.

Blackwill's absence will shorten the list of people reputed to be in the running to replace Condoleezza Rice as President Bush's national security adviser. Rice has told associates she will not stay in the post in the second Bush term and has talked about returning to academic life in California. She was a former provost at Stanford University and was a political science professor when Bush hired her.

Blackwill, whose formal title is coordinator for strategic planning on the NSC, spent months slipping in and out of Baghdad to put a U.S. stamp on a caretaker government in Iraq. The career diplomat was on the short list to become ambassador to Iraq in the spring, but Bush instead chose John Negroponte, former ambassador to the United Nations.

The White House would not comment about any impact of his departure on preparations for the Iraqi elections, scheduled in January, less than three months from now.

Blackwill worked at the National Security Council in the first Bush presidency. After advising the current president during the 2000 campaign, he spent nearly two years as ambassador in New Delhi. He served at the State Department under Secretaries Henry Kissinger, Alexander Haig and George Shultz and has spent nearly 15 years teaching foreign and defense policy at Harvard University's John F. Kennedy School of Government.

Cofer Black is going too, Walter.

I know - that link was just an by-product when looking for some confirming sources of what Foxfyre wrote

Quote:

Everyone seemed to be appalled at Putin's handling of the hostage situation in the theatre. I admired his grit. It is true that a lot of friendlies died that day and of course it is tragic. But not one died because of Putin's decision not to cave in to terrorist demands... they died at the hands of the terrorists themselves. Putin's behavior essentially put out the notice; "If you attack our innocent people, it is always a suicide mission". We'll never no how many Russian would-be hostage takers sh!t-can the idea as soon as it's suggested because they know their own death would be the result. Any weakness shown in the Zero-Tolerance for terrorism policy encourages terrorism. The more weakness shown, the more rational terrorism becomes.

Obill is spot on accurate here. I wish so much that each new generation could learn from the experience of the past. The world did not defy Lenin when his movement was a small band of rebel activisits and by his hand and those who followed, millions of innocents died. The world did not defy Hitler when his movement was a small band of rebel activists or even when Germany first started moving on his neighbors. Let him have his way there, they said, and he will be satisfied. Well he wasn't, and millions of innocents died.

The Fentanyl-based gas killed all but two of the 119 hostages who died in the siege. Hospital officials said most of them died of respiratory and heart failure. Of those rescued, 245 remain hospitalized, with eight in a serious condition.

Revel, I don't mean to ignore you but your points don't reflect any real understanding of mine. I understand you don't like the war... and I understand why.

Squinney; what do you suggest ? 125,000 people... over half of the city has already left. Clearly they don't agree with the insurgents that it's worthy of their lives. When the CRASH teams go in to arrest gang members, violence spikes there as well, but what's the alternative? Placating thugs encourages thug behavior.

Everyone seemed to be appalled at Putin's handling of the hostage situation in the theatre. I admired his grit. It is true that a lot of friendlies died that day and of course it is tragic. But not one died because of Putin's decision not to cave in to terrorist demands... they died at the hands of the terrorists themselves. Putin's behavior essentially put out the notice; "If you attack our innocent people, it is always a suicide mission". We'll never no how many Russian would-be hostage takers sh!t-can the idea as soon as it's suggested because they know their own death would be the result. Any weakness shown in the Zero-Tolerance for terrorism policy encourages terrorism. The more weakness shown, the more rational terrorism becomes.

It is ok if you ignore me. However my post did address your point about the invasion of Iraq being worth it if there were only a few people who needed rescuring from Saddam Hussien. I said that there are people all over the world that need rescuring but we can't invade every country and nook and cranny on earth to do it and besides that was not the reason stated for the invasion.

However, I read you and will not post after your post again as you made it plain I don't have anything of note to say.