4
   

Is the world being destroyed?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 12:11 pm
We are getting stuck in personal squabbling and tangents. The big questions involve the likely fate of the human race (listed here from most extreme to slightly less extreme).

1) Who here actually believes that the human race is doomed, and that civilization will likely collapse within a few generations?

2) Who believes that drastic measures such as letting a large number of people starve are necessary and/or appropriate?

3) Who believes that a mass starvation event in the next couple generations is unavoidable (or probable)?

All three of these conspiracy theories are being raised in this silly thread.

My personal feeling is that the human race is doing just fine (I started a separate thread to discuss this). We have a global climate crisis to sort through, and some problems to address. But all in all we are going in the right directly in terms of productivity, prosperity and population.

maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 12:14 pm
If no one were actually taking these extreme positions, then I wouldn't be arguing so strongly against them.

If someone were advocating a position on the importance of conservation (without the alarmist claims that the world is "being destroyed") I would be happy to support them.

You can advocate for productive change without making outrageous claims of impending doom.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Jun, 2021 12:36 pm
@farmerman,
I was making the point that if we’re mining fertiliser one mile beneath the North Sea there must be a pretty big demand in general.

I’ll take your word on the respective chemical compositions.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  4  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2021 04:31 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
If no one were actually taking these extreme positions, then I wouldn't be arguing so strongly against them.

But no one is taking those positions. FFS, the long-departed OP poses the subject as a question.
Quote:
You can advocate for productive change without making outrageous claims of impending doom.

Sure, and someone else can advocate for productive change while making outrageous claims of impending doom. Those claims draw people's attention. Like yours — otherwise you wouldn't have crashed this thread.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2021 04:51 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
This Peak Potassium nonsense is just another conspiracy theory.

No it isn't. No one's trying to hide anything. No one's blaming sinister forces at work. Phys.org isn't a conspiracy site.
Quote:
Once you have that, you can always "gather facts" to support your theory.

The point I'm making is that when a theory is laid out as a collection of material facts, the supplied data can be disproven, the method criticized, and mistakes identified. As opposed to most religious claims and "faith-based" arguments.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  6  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2021 07:44 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
We are getting stuck in personal squabbling and tangents.

Yeah, that seems to happen any time you show up.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 20 Jun, 2021 09:06 am
@hightor,
It's hardly his fault that other people squabble with him.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 05:49 am
Plastic and toxic chemical induced ocean acidification will cause a plankton crisis that will devastate humanity over the next 25 Years, unless we act now to stop the pollution.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 06:10 am
@hightor,
Yes. Shortage or not of materials, the misuse of them is equally devastating.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 06:57 am


Quote:
I don't like them putting chemicals in the water that turn the freakin' frogs gay! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  3  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 10:36 am
Legal experts worldwide draw up ‘historic’ definition of ecocide
Quote:
Legal experts from across the globe have drawn up a “historic” definition of ecocide, intended to be adopted by the international criminal court to prosecute the most egregious offences against the environment.

The draft law, unveiled on Tuesday, defines ecocide as “unlawful or wanton acts committed with knowledge that there is a substantial likelihood of severe and widespread or long-term damage to the environment being caused by those acts”.

The Stop Ecocide Foundation initiative comes amid concerns that not enough is being done to tackle the climate and ecological crisis. ...

Prof Philippe Sands QC, of University College London, who co-chaired the panel that spent the past six months hammering out the definition, said: “The four other crimes all focus exclusively on the wellbeing of human beings. This one of course does that but it introduces a new non-anthropocentric approach, namely putting the environment at the heart of international law, and so that is original and innovative.

“For me the single most important thing about this initiative is that it’s part of that broader process of changing public consciousness, recognising that we are in a relationship with our environment, we are dependent for our wellbeing on the wellbeing of the environment and that we have to use various instruments, political, diplomatic but also legal to achieve the protection of the environment.”

An ecocide law has been mooted for decades, with the late Swedish prime minister, Olof Palme, pushing the concept at the 1972 UN environmental conference in Stockholm. More recently, ecocide was considered for inclusion in the 1998 Rome statute establishing the ICC before being dropped. The Scottish barrister Polly Higgins led a decade-long campaign for it to be recognised as a crime against humanity before her death in 2019.
... ... ...



Independent Expert Panel for the Legal Definition of Ecocide: COMMENTARY AND CORE TEXT (PDF-text)
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 10:43 am
@oralloy,
Actually it is.
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 10:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Boy, that's a few decades too late (but I guess better late than never) when you consider Valdez, clear-cutting, pesticides and other toxins dumped in the oceans, etc.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 10:46 am
@Mame,
I get the feeling that a lot of these late measures are rather like face-saving devices. "Well, we tried."
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Jun, 2021 11:09 am
@Mame,
Mame wrote:
Boy, that's a few decades too late ...
The Rome Statute wasn't adopted before 1998 (and came into force in 2002).
And quite a lot of countries aren't signatories of the Rome Statute or have withdrawn the signature like e.g. the USA.
0 Replies
 
Mame
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2021 03:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

The draft law, unveiled on Tuesday, defines ecocide as “unlawful or wanton acts committed with knowledge that there is a substantial likelihood of severe and widespread or long-term damage to the environment being caused by those acts”.

“For me the single most important thing about this initiative is that it’s part of that broader process of changing public consciousness, recognising that we are in a relationship with our environment, we are dependent for our wellbeing on the wellbeing of the environment and that we have to use various instruments, political, diplomatic but also legal to achieve the protection of the environment.”


Does anyone believe that this recognition will happen in our lifetime?

Lots of well-meaning acts/laws/initiatives have been put in place in order to better society but they have often been ignored. Just look at leaders and governments around the world. All they get is scoldings and some sanctions when they contravene their signed agreements.

Maybe if all teens became Greta T things would change, but from what I've read, seen, and heard, it's not too likely.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2021 04:13 pm
@Mame,
I don't understand the cult of Greta Thunberg. I have nothing against, she is a typical teenage girl; she knows everything and is annoyed by the stupidity of adults.

What Greta represents is mindless, uninformed hysteria. She has no real expertise and is loose with scientific facts. She has unrealistic simplistic solutions and no concept of making tradeoffs or considering costs versus benfits.

If your movement is being led by science and responsible policy making, that is good. If your movement is being led by an inpulsive teenager...

Again, Greta is no better or worse than any other teenager. It is the people who have turned her into a Saint that irk me.

0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2021 04:18 pm
@Mame,
Humans do not have the mental bandwidth to confront climate change

Quote:
In the 1996 movie, “Independence Day,” the people of the Earth unite to fight off a swarm of scuzzy-looking alien invaders. It is a fun film, even if parts of it are implausible.

And, by implausible, I don’t mean how the humans shoot down the aliens’ 15-mile-wide, city-destroying space ships with conventional jet fighters. What was truy implausible was the way Americans, let alone everyone else on the planet, managed to join together to fight a global threat. More realistically, if bad guys ever come at us from outer space, Tucker Carlson will insist it is a hoax perpetrated by the Democrats, the NRA will declare it is an FBI false flag ploy to get hold of everyone’s guns, animal rights activists will insist we have no right to harm another species and progressives will say the money spent on fighting aliens should, instead, go to fixing homelessness.

Well, we are, indeed, facing a global threat. It is called climate change. A NASA scientist just announced that the planet is getting hotter at an unprecedented rate — twice as fast as it was heating up in 2005. The American West is experiencing extreme drought and a record heat wave with water reservoirs disappearing, crops abandoned, electrical grids taxed to their limits and wildfires blazing. Meanwhile, polar ice and glaciers everywhere are shrinking at an alarming rate.

The human response? A whole lot of talk and minimal measures to reduce the use of fossil fuels that drive the climate phenomenon. In the U.S. Congress, our representatives struggle to reach agreement that the nation’s roads and bridges need to be fixed, that the right to vote should be defended or that a violent attack on the Capitol should be investigated. Climate Change? Nearly half of the senators and congressmen will not even say it is a real thing, let alone a looming crisis that needs to be addressed immediately.

I do not only fault the Republicans for this foolish myopia. It is human beings in general. Most of us simply cannot get our minds around an existential peril that is so enormous. Instead, we expend our angst and mental energy on transitory issues, like whether Donald Trump will be president again in a few months or a few years.

Bring on the aliens. They might do a better job taking care of our planet.

seattletimes/horsey
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2021 04:40 pm
@hightor,
Pop Quiz Question

True of False: The IPCC WHO and other scientific agencies believe that Climate Change is an "existential threat" that if unaddressed will lead to either collapse of modern civilization or the end of all human life?

(Hint: This is a gross exagerration of what science is actually saying),
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 23 Jun, 2021 05:54 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Actually it is.

No. It is the fault of the people who choose to squabble with him.

Progressives always try to claim that it's everyone else's fault when progressives act badly, but no. Progressives are responsible for their own actions.
0 Replies
 
 

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