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Israel Proves the Desalination Era is Here

 
 
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 12:09 am
Israel Proves the Desalination Era is Here
One of the driest countries on earth now makes more freshwater than it needs


Quote:
Amazingly, Israel has more water than it needs. The turnaround started in 2007, when low-flow toilets and showerheads were installed nationwide and the national water authority built innovative water treatment systems that recapture 86 percent of the water that goes down the drain and use it for irrigation — vastly more than the second-most-efficient country in the world, Spain, which recycles 19 percent.

But even with those measures, Israel still needed about 1.9 billion cubic meters (2.5 billion cubic yards) of freshwater per year and was getting just 1.4 billion cubic meters (1.8 billion cubic yards) from natural sources. That 500-million-cubic-meter (650-million-cubic-yard) shortfall was why the Sea of Galilee was draining like an unplugged tub and why the country was about to lose its farms.

The country faces a previously unfathomable question: What to do with its extra water?Enter desalination. The Ashkelon plant, in 2005, provided 127 million cubic meters (166 million cubic yards) of water. Hadera, in 2009, put out another 140 million cubic meters (183 million cubic yards). And now Sorek, 150 million cubic meters (196 million cubic yards). All told, desal plants can provide some 600 million cubic meters (785 million cubic yards) of water a year, and more are on the way.

The Sea of Galilee is fuller. Israel’s farms are thriving. And the country faces a previously unfathomable question: What to do with its extra water?
 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 12:13 am
@Robert Gentel,
I've long admired Israel's leadership in water reuse (used water is treated and routed through a second set of pipes for agricultural use) and their efforts in desalination but I thought it would be unlikely that they would be able to cost-effectively desalinate on this scale, I'm happy to be wrong here as this could be a big key to water shortages elsewhere and in the future.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 03:47 am
@Robert Gentel,
when Dupont invented the prmacep process which is the basis for desal, the industry was forcing its customers to adopt unit diameter RO tube (they were from 6 to 8" in diameter) and they were very expensive to operate. The Israelis, ever th "fixers" took permacep off line and futzed with these tubes and just by screwing with the diameters (They increased the D's to 16 to 20 inches), they found that they could drop the energy costs so that it only costs about 1$ per thousand gal of finished water to produce from raw sea water.

Normal treated surface nd ground water in use in the eastern US is about 7$ a thousand gal (wholesale). Most customers pay aboput 12 to 15$ a thousand gallons

There is no longerany bullshit reason NOT to adopt desal for other desrtified areas of the world , like Australia, the horn of Africa or The San juaquin Valley.

Deserts can truly bloom is technology od boosted rather than stifled.

Theyev also come up ith new nno thick Osmotic membranes (a few atoms thick which further reduces energy costs. I dont think these are on line yet.


Israel was the Air Force that improved the F 11 Eagles by putting in a "rear view mirror" in the ples cock[it. (Or at least thats what was told by n Israeli Engineer)

They also kept the wings of F16's from falling off by putting in prforattions along the fuselage at the wing attachments points.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 04:00 am
@farmerman,
I was also told that the grphne RO filters, have a "Sweet spot" of layers nd "holes" through which the seawater is forced under pressure. They got an isea for the layering from BAKWRS who mke croissants and Philo .
They make layers and layers of graphene separated by chemical :spacer molecules ( polymers with different charges that separate the graphene payers from each other (in a manner similar to how DNA attacjes to fixed poles of the entire DNA "ladder"

Nothing new nd interdisciplanary science now includes BAKING.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Sat 30 Jul, 2016 09:16 am
@farmerman,
This is one of the most important issues that goes right along with GW. As only saline water becomes more available, desal water will serve ag, potable needs, etc etc.
desal sludges, from certain arts of the world (including western US) are loaded with REE and noble metals (as well as throw away sghit like lithium for batteries. The very sludges left after RO desalination can pay for the
process many times over.

Lithium demand is expected to treble in less than 20 years as entire new generations of high efficiency battery banks are needed for ALL ELECTRIC cars.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 05:01 pm
@farmerman,
I see that MIT has been orking on a REE concentration technique from desal slusges. Seems like Lithium will become a much more available element for new generation batteries.

I bought a Milwaukee "FUEL" Sawzall last year and it was 20 V with a long life Li battery (Li batteries run at full load till they reach their ultimate discharge point). They dont qear down like NiCad s. NOW , one year later, they have a new gen Li /free-air battery that delivers 48 volts and weighs less than my 20 volt.

Availability of these new gen Li batteries will make battery banks for all elextric cars deliver a much greater range. NOW, all qe gotta do is figure out how to recharge these 15 KW batteries in 15 minutes.

0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 10:41 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Rowan Jacobsen in the Scientific American article quoted by Robert Gentel wrote:
The Sea of Galilee is fuller. Israel’s farms are thriving. And the country faces a previously unfathomable question: What to do with its extra water?

They should give it to the Palestinians to compensate for the water they've been overdrawing from West Bank wells against the Oslo Accord agreements.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 11:09 pm
@InfraBlue,
Sure, and we should give the United States back to the Indians.
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 11:12 pm
@roger,
roger wrote:

Sure, and we should give the United States back to the Indians.


Your analogy is inept.

The Zionists are taking more water from West Bank wells than they agreed to in the Oslo Accords.

The United States grants many more rights to the Indians than the Zionists do to the Palestinians.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 11:18 pm
@InfraBlue,
So? We took more land from the Indians than they ever agreed to.

Can't this just be about desalination? Guess not, huh?
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Aug, 2016 11:20 pm
@InfraBlue,
They already do give some of the water to the Palestinians. I believe this article might even reference that.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 12:26 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

Israel was the Air Force that improved the F 11 Eagles by putting in a "rear view mirror" in the ples cock[it. (Or at least thats what was told by n Israeli Engineer)

They also kept the wings of F16's from falling off by putting in prforattions along the fuselage at the wing attachments points.


I am fascinated to learn and understand some of your insights about the economics and design of reverse osmosis desal plants. If I am not mistaken, Dupont ceased the manufacture of permasep a few years ago. I don't know what motivated it - exonomics or competing technologies.

I believe some enterprise are trying to license and open a desal plant in Southern California but are meeting with resistance from environmentalists over the residual local salt concentration in the Pacific ocean ! Evidently they aren't aware of the mobility and solubility of NACL.

However you should not believe all you are hearing from Israeli Pilots and Engineers. Rear view mirrors have been a standard feature of fighter and attack aircraft sinse WWI. All USAF F-15s have them.

I simply don't believe the story about perforations in the skin of the fuselage strengthening the wing structure. In the first place the wing bending stresses are not transmitted to the skin of the fuselage at all: they go to the interior frame of the fuselage, so the perforations would have no effect.

farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 04:36 am
@georgeob1,
IT was a joke. The perforations story was that the Israelis asked a Rabbi to help out and he suggested that the perforations be put on the wings where they join to the fuselage. His logic was that "Look at matzoh, it never breaks oin the perfoorations" Ta daaa.

--------------------------------------
--------------------------------------
Saline sludges have some great mineral potential, especially rare earths and Lithium. (even though the Li content is in the low % range, it can be beneficiated quite easily.

Permasep was dropped by the ever "leaning" Dupont Company and was bought up by some employees. And like Gore-tex, the new guys had the vision. They teamed up with (MIT's Lincoln Lab I beleive) and woeked on dropping energy requirements. Israelis jumped in from the beginning and were working on their own tweaks.
As I posted the production cost pwr thousand gallons. That doesnt include storage nd piping etc. SO Im ure the infrastructure costs have to be blnded in there somehow. (I always let the engineers tell me what its gonna cost and then we negotite)
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 04:40 am
@farmerman,
I think the real break throughs have been in the micro fibres and nano skin membranes . Im not sure who. Every U has a materials lab and the U of Delaware Chem E group has spun off so many companies that are located in the little town of Newark Del that this hs become a nano fibre valley"
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 09:49 am
@roger,
So, your analogy is irrelevant.

The writer asked a question about Israel's water surplus. I suggested an answer.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 09:50 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

They already do give some of the water to the Palestinians. I believe this article might even reference that.

All I found in the article is that one of the researchers interviews saw Israel's water surplus as an opportunity for "water diplomacy."
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 10:43 am
@InfraBlue,
Just looked and this article mentions they are building a large desaliniation plant whose water will go to Israel, Jordan and the Palestinians.

In any case, while Israel has violated the water rights of Palestinians in the past and there are a lot of things to criticize Israel for (I certainly do) this thread was a thread about science and not politics.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 11:39 am
@Robert Gentel,
Hving been ovr there working on the Water Distribution models at Rehovoth , about half their water(mostly drip irrigation) has been from reclaimed sewage and , after 1979, its been a growing amount of desalinized water first featuring the Dupont Permasep process. The amount of desal is getting larger primarily because new technology, mostly home grown, has greatly reduced the enrgy costs to force the water through the little molecular spaces . The other half of their potable and some ag has most of it coming from the Sea of Galilee and karst pools , nd undersea springs.

Distributing water to neighbors is always a good thing espwcially since "making the desert bloom" helps everyone feed their countryfolks.



cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 11:46 am
@farmerman,
I've been to Israel a couple of times, and saw the drip irrigation system they use on their farms.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 3 Aug, 2016 11:55 am
@cicerone imposter,
ever been to Rehovot? Its a neat place about 50Km West of Jrusalem where they have so many scientists just like monks. We used to play with some of the very first DRONES (but they had either gas or jet engines because batteries were still very clunky in the 80's)

Israel basically invented nd developed the drone (UAVs they called em). They wwre just big toys till they started adding recorders ande scanners.

Then they were really big ass toys where we could take pictures of the girls in bikinis at the beach.
0 Replies
 
 

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