8
   

Is the world being destroyed?

 
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 10:47 am
The last two posts from Hightor and Annointed present a fascinating juxtapostion..Hightor's post was well receices. Annointed was thumbed down. These two posts have the same message.

Hightor's jeremiad says that because of man's wickedness, humanity and life on earth will be destroyed. Annointed has the same message (although his jeremiad is actually from Jeremiah).

These apocalyptic visions of judgement have been the mainstay of relogous prophecy for millennia. Let's be clear.

Science does say that temperatures are rising becuse of carbon emissions. Obviously this will have serious consequences economcally a d envoronmentally.

To suggest the end of human civilization or life on earth is not science... it is just another incarnation of religious apocalyptic prophecy.
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 11:33 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Hightor's post was well receices. Annointed was thumbed down.

Grow up, FFS.

"Well received" – yeah, two people (as I write this) were glad to see it posted and I suspect they are people who are interested in this information and can separate the necessary information from the hyperbole. "Annointed was thumbed down" – yes he was. By a total of three people. And that's because he repeatedly posts scripture and is incapable of discussing anything which isn't derived from the christianist bible. His post added nothing to the discussion.

Quote:
These two posts have the same message.

No they don't. One is about the human tendency to value short term gain over a strategic planning for the long term. The other is eschatology, concerned about a very different sort of "end times".

Quote:

Hightor's jeremiad says that because of man's wickedness, humanity and life on earth will be destroyed.

First thing, it's not "my jeremiad", it's an article by Umair Haque, who writes about current events. He provides reasons for his arguments, reasons which can be adapted by readers to use in their conversations and communications about the consequences of climate change. He does not mention anything about "wickedness". The two verses Annointed quotes are devoid of science and mention man's "wickedness" and a god's "fury".

Quote:
To suggest the end of human civilization or life on earth is not science...

It's not meant to be read as a scientific study; it's an article which reflects the author's concerns for the future of life on this planet. Which is why I included it here. I never said that I would post scientific studies exclusively.

maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 01:39 pm
@hightor,
Quote:
as hot as Jacobabad — the hottest place on earth — which itself is becoming so that that soon it will literally be unsurvivable…then, my friends, we are a civilisation that has literally cooked itself alive. In the combustion and fumes of its own addiction to exploitation, stuff, toys, hate, rage, all the ways we try to escape from our own demons of loneliness, despair, ignorance, and powerlessness.

We’re living on a dying planet.


I understand that Hightor is representing a political ideology that is popular here. And I understand that people want to support it. But is anyone here actually stepping back and thinking about how outragious the claims are that this article is making.?

I will point out the logical problems.... (but this article is so absurdly extreme, it shouldn't matter).

1. Comparing wet bulb temperature with temperature is deception and scientifically invalid

2. Saying that "trillions of things will die" is just scientifically meaningless. The definition of "things" is unscientific, but even if you mean individual creatures... trillions and trillions of mosquitos have died every day since long before the advent of the industrial age.

3.When someone uses the word "literally" it usually means they are full of crap. This writer says "literally cooking ourselves alive", the "literally boiling alive inside", "literally like a pressure cooker", "literally unsurvivable".

None of these are true. This is crappy writing.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 01:50 pm
The idea that the "earth is dying' is unscientific. It is an absurd apocalyptic vision that isn't supported by the facts. Climate change is serious. But it won't end all life on Earth, nor will it end human civilization.

What's wrong with a rational, fact-based response to a real problem without this wildly exaggerated absurdist end of the world nonsense?
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 02:50 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Comparing wet bulb temperature with temperature is deception and scientifically invalid..

You're wrong. It's used by weather reporters all the time.

Quote:
...trillions and trillions of mosquitos have died every day since long before the advent of the industrial age.

Bullshit. Citation please.

In the history of our species, billions of humans have died and you know why no one talks about it? — because the conditions for humans to reproduce and flourish remained unchanged. That's why the current situation is different.

the schoolmarm wrote:
None of these are true. This is crappy writing.


Actually it is true that humans can't survive temperatures above 130ºF accompanied by 100% humidity. You can cook a rare steak at 130º.

Umair Haque wrote:
We are now living on a dying planet. It’s not dying in an ultimate and final sense — probably not, anyways, although there’s still some chance we end up with a cycle of runaway warming so severe we end up like Venus. We’re living on a dying planet in the sense that it’s heating up incredibly fast, faster than it has for hundreds of millions of years, quite possibly the fastest it’s ever heated up.


What’s certain not to survive is this way of life.



maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 03:45 pm
@hightor,
First I want to clarify. Now you are stating that han civilization as we know it is going to end. If I remember, you were denying this earlier. Now you seem to be implying this again.

And where did you get the number 130F again? Did you just make this bumber up?
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 07:49 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Now you are stating that han civilization as we know it is going to end.

And where did I say that? If you're referring to Haque's statement, "What’s certain not to survive is this way of life", any such claim is based on current trends continuing at current rates or possibly increasing. Nearly all the realistic scenarios show great environmental and economic challenges ahead, and I don't know why you'd think this "way of life" would remain unaffected. This way of life is not the apotheosis of human civilization; it's a destructive system that humans need to change.
Quote:
And where did you get the number 130F again?

That's from a cookbook. But 95º and 100% humidity is all it takes to kill you — you won't start cooking though until 125º or so — in 2½ hours you qualify as "rare".
NOAA" wrote:
Sweating alone does nothing to cool the body unless the water evaporates. Around a wet-bulb temperature of 95°F (35°C), human’s survivability limit, evaporation of sweat is no longer enough for our bodies to regulate their internal temperature. But serious impacts occur at values as low as 79°F (26°C).

“When wet-bulb temperatures are extremely high, there is so much moisture in the air that sweating becomes ineffective at removing the body’s excess heat, like what happens in a steam room,” said Colin Raymond, the study’s lead author who conducted work at Columbia University and is now a postdoctoral scientist at NASA’s Jet Propulsion Laboratory. “At some point, perhaps after six or more hours, this will lead to organ failure and death in the absence of access to artificial cooling.”

noaa
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 08:04 pm
1. He is claiming we are on a "dying planet". Does this mean the end of life on Earth? Or is this a silly exagerration. (If this was a silly exagerration then I would be a little less incredulous).

2. Yes... if the Earth hits 130 degrees Fahernheit in heavily populated areas for significant amounts of time, that would be a very bad thing. In order for this to pose a threat to civilization, it would have to involve a large proportion of the population.

Are you claiming that large proportions of the populated areas of Earth are going to consistently hit 130 degrees Fahrenheit?

If you are making this claim, I think you are being ridiculous. If you are not making this claim, then this whole argument is a meaningless hypothetical.
The Anointed
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 26 Jul, 2021 08:15 pm
@maxdancona,
We are not on a dying planet, but we are on a planet that is going to experience the extinction of all physical life forms within the next two thousand years, from heavenly radiation, according to the Hebrew and Christian scriptural prophecies.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Tue 27 Jul, 2021 03:43 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
He is claiming we are on a "dying planet".

He's not "claiming" anything that hasn't already been accepted by scientists, that we are witnessing a wave of extinction due to climate change and human activity leading to loss of habitats and biosystems which sustain particular types of animal and plant life. A "dying planet" means just that — a planet where plants and animals are going extinct (dying) at a level unprecedented in human history.

Quote:
Does this mean the end of life on Earth?

For some species it obviously does.

Quote:
In order for this to pose a threat to civilization, it would have to involve a large proportion of the population.

"This way of life" is not synonymous with "civilization".

Quote:
Are you claiming that large proportions of the populated areas of Earth are going to consistently hit 130 degrees Fahrenheit?

What's with you always trying to frame other people's words to fit your tired narrative? Where did I "claim" that? Where did the author "claim" that? The fact is, the world is growing warmer and high heat combined with high humidity is not only uncomfortable for humans, it can be deadly. That's why we might want to try to do something about it. And doing something about it would mean the end of the way of life that has come to characterize wealthy societies. Which is why powerful corporations and stupid people have disputed the human role in climate change over the past seventy years.

Quote:
If you are making this claim, I think you are being ridiculous. If you are not making this claim, then this whole argument is a meaningless hypothetical.

Great. So you can stop posting on this topic and concentrate on polluting some other thread. Maybe you can explain how "trillions and trillions of mosquitos have died every day since long before the advent of the industrial age", a stinking canard much more outrageous than anything said by Haque in his article.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 10:08 am
Scientists who declared climate emergency two years ago say Earth’s vital signs have worsened

‘It’s surprising that climate change impacts are happening so fast around the world,’ lead scientist tells The Independent

Quote:
Almost two years ago, 11,000 scientists in 153 countries came together to declare that the world is facing a climate emergency. Now, the research team behind the declaration warn that Earth’s “vital signs” have continued to deteriorate.

In a new assessment, the scientists say that “there has been an unprecedented surge in climate-related disasters since 2019” – including “record-shattering heatwaves and wildfires in Australia and the western US”, “extraordinary hurricanes” and “devastating cyclones” in parts of Asia and Africa.

At the same time, levels of CO2 in the atmosphere reached a new record while the number of livestock on Earth soared past four billion – representing more mass than all humans and wild mammals combined.

Dr William Ripple, lead author of the assessment and distinguished professor of ecology at Oregon State University, described the world’s “lack of progress” since November 2019 as “frustrating and scary”.

“Most of the factors that we track, we call them ‘planetary vital signs’, have gotten worse,” he told The Independent.

“It’s surprising to me that climate change impacts are happening so fast around the world. Just in the last two weeks, every day we’ve seen another climate-related disaster – either with fires or floods or drought or heat.

“I feel frustrated that there has not been more progress, especially with the rich countries and the ones that are doing the most polluting. It’s frustrating and it’s scary at the same time.”

Other vital signs to worsen over the past two years include Amazon deforestation, which reached a 12-year high of 1.11 million hectares destroyed in 2020, the research says.

Greenland and Antarctica also saw record low levels of ice mass in the last two years, according to the analysis, which is published in the journal BioScience.

Despite the grim outlook, there are “glimmers of hope”, Dr Ripple said.

The assessment notes that 1,990 jurisdictions in 34 countries have formally declared or recognised a climate emergency in the past two years. In addition, the amount spent on fossil fuel subsidies globally has dropped.

The Covid-19 pandemic had an impact on some indicators, such as air transport – but these effects were “short lived”, the analysis says.

“A major lesson from Covid-19 is that even colossally decreased transportation and consumption are not nearly enough and that, instead, transformational system changes are required,” the researchers say.

These changes include the elimination of fossil fuels, a switch to mostly plant-based diets and the restoration and permanent protection of Earth’s natural habitats, the analysis says.

An upcoming global climate summit in Glasgow in November, known as Cop26, will provide a key moment for world leaders to deliver the transformations needed to change Earth’s fortunes, Dr Ripple said.

independent.uk

maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 10:42 am
@hightor,
This is a much better article (although the headline made me chuckle).

In this article you don't see the ridiculous "dying planet" narrative. Instead, you see scientists warning of serious consequences including storms and fires in some places.

One is calling for a serious reponse to a real problem. Thr
E other is predicting societal collapse, and a post apocalyptic future (if humans even survive).

There is a big difference.
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 11:02 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
This is a much better article (although the headline made me chuckle).

The fact that one is in a wide circulation newspaper and the other is in a web log explains the difference in tone. This one is reporting news; Haque was airing his beliefs and his opinions on the news. Both are allowable forms of expression.
Quote:
In this article you don't see the ridiculous "dying planet" narrative. Instead, you see scientists warning of serious consequences including storms and fires in some places.

Reading between the lines, there's not much difference between them. The consequences are the same — if the trends continue, extinctions, habitat destruction, and challenges to the way of life in advanced wealthy countries will result in death and suffering on a planetary scale.
Quote:
One is calling for a serious reponse to a real problem. Thr
E other is predicting societal collapse, and a post apocalyptic future (if humans even survive).

Well, societies will collapse if faced with mass immigration, loss of farmland, water shortages, and dangerously high temperatures.
Quote:
There is a big difference.

The core problem is the same, though.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 12:55 pm
@hightor,
You are exaggerating the crisis far beyond what any reputable scientific organization is saying

Stick to the science and we will be in agreement. Yes climate change us very serious. Yes there will be more extreme heat in some places. Yes there will be rising oceans, meters in some places. Yes tens of milloons of people could die.

No, climate change will not end human life. No, civilization will not crash.

If you want to claim to "fillow the science", then you wont make up apocalyptic fantasies that aren't supported by science.

Your phrase "reading between the lines" means you are making up stuff that isnt supported by facts. That is bullshit.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 12:56 pm
@hightor,
there was a discussion at stanford. I think Sopolsky led it (not sure) it was about just those consequences to civilization , like border conflicts, ntire nation losses of topography (Pacific island nations, Banglaesh, Low countries of EU, Nunivit, nations in an around the "Wallace Line".
Pople will be looking for accomodations and small scale wars could occur on areas being inundated. Desertification will affect more landmass than submrgence.

Futurists are leaning towar "preventable catastrophes" and larger scale famine and iseases.

We will pprobably lose, by the time its over, much of the Miss Delta region, almost all of Fla, S New ENgland (Along Presumscott laminae)

Cheneers and bayou areas.
0 Replies
 
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 03:34 pm
@maxdancona,
Correct, it is not climate change, but heavenly radiation that is going to destroy all physical life forms on this planet, and do I have scientific evidence to prove that? No I do not. I rely on the words of our Lord 'The Son of Man' the MOST HIGH in the creation, who mentally descends from his heights in time and reveals to those who receive him, that which is to occur in the future.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 03:37 pm
Does this Son of Man have the lottery numbers?
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 03:53 pm
@edgarblythe,
Every money hungry atheist in the world would be kneeling before him, if he does, But he rewards those who believe in him with treasures much more valuable that money.

BTW, do you believe that mankind, who developed within the bodies of our animal ancestors, closes the book of evolution? Do you know who is the great ancestor of 'The Son of Man' the MOST HIGH in the creation?
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 04:10 pm
@The Anointed,
Evolution, like rust, never sleeps. But humans have reached a point of screwing with their own evolutionary possibilities. The end result may or may not be of benefit in the long run. I am pessimistic because so many industrial paid off scientists may have a hand.
The Anointed
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 28 Jul, 2021 04:21 pm
@edgarblythe,
It's people like myself, who created heavier than air flying machines, while people like you, created parachutes. No faith old mate.
 

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