Killers Of The 20th Century

I don't see where you get the figure of 60 million for old Adolf . . . and the Russians lost at least 20 million in the war (including those killed by the Soviet Union itself), without counting the deaths from policies of Stalin and the purges of the 1930's . . . i have always been mystified by those who are fascinated by slaughter and those who perpetrate it.

Have you met Lusatian?

Hmmm ... where d'ya get the numbers from? Judging from the Hitler numbers, they include war dead?

If you only take the victims of state terror and not the ones from war, I think Stalin outdid Hitler ...

Mao's numbers seem awfully low.

60 million is taken from all casualties in WW II. Point is: where can you draw the line? I got this information from a website, I didn't make it up myself.


Insult!

Source: http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/killers.htm

It goes down to the wire between Hitler and Stalin. I think Hitler wins by a nose.

Did you judge that by the stench?

. . . i personally vote for ol' Joe, because i include the murder of the Kulaks, and the purges of the 1930's . . . the purge of the army assured higher casualties, and a nearly fatal lack of command control during the initial response to the German invasion . . .

I think Stalin was "good" at "cultural genocide": the abolishing of religious institutions; the deportations of millions from their homeland; to name two. It is hard to chose indeed. Eventually I did chose for Hitler, because it was he who affected my life and my country more than Stalin that - from a personal view, that is the decisive factor.

I judge that by my personal feelings. In any event there is not a lot of room for choice.

Good point, Au, a son-of-a-bitch in power is a son-of-a-bitch, regarless of the relative degree of success in wanton murder.

Which is why i remain mystified by the glorification of any particular mudered, be it Attila, Genghis Kahn, Tamerlane, Hitler, Stalin or Pol Pot. They're all freaks who did uncalculable harm to the human race.

Am I one of those Setanta

They're all excellent candidates for the title, but didn't Pol Pot also take a huge number of ordinary citizens and move them to forced labor camps? Perhaps he could get a few extra points for that.

I'd agree with Stalin being the #1 - he had a longer time on his hands and few more millions went down. Depends how one counts (plus does that really matter???). I'd throw in Habyarimana and general Bagasora of Rwanda, especially the latter. 800,000 people dead in 100 days - that is a faster rate of killing than during genocide. Plus Rwanda is a small state - the proportions are thus far greater.
Not to even mention Congo, where half of the population (estimates only, first census took place in 1924) was killed, starved or worked to death. So how does one count? I don't give a primacy to any of them, the evil is evil.

Well the numbers weren't necessary actually, I apologize for that. I think I started this thread because I was shocked how many people have been murdered only this 20th century by dictators, tyrans. I once heard the number of 150 million people in the 20th century alone.

Rick
Humans have been busily killing each other since the dawn of time. If you believe the bible it all started with a bite of an apple. That's it it's all the fault of a women listening to a snake.

Damn apples

I'd even venture to suggest that 150 million is a low number. By the way, i'm mystified that you include King Leopold of the Belgians. I had thought that was 19th century--or am i confusing monarchs? Wasn't Albert King of the Belgians at the beginning of the 20th Century?

I guess he just made it.

OK, i'm not up on the descent of Belgian Kings, who were German anyway, just like the English monarchy . . . when it comes to dynastic history in Europe . . .


Get yer scorecards here, get your scorecards . . . Can't tell the players without a score card . . .

(Note to Rick, this is the chant of generations of hawkers at American baseball games.)

I don't what the exact percentages are, but what I know from our own Dutch Royal Family is that they are more German than Dutch (again, those "Zjermans"), with some Russian and English blood. I once read that the Dutch Royal Family, who actually came from the county of Orange in Southern France, are Jews by heritage. And now, with Princess Máxima, we imported some Argentinian blood. Talk about multi-cultural!

Rick -- may I ask who the source of your numbers is? You say "a website", but there are many websites out there, and most of them are crap.

That said, the source I see cited most frequently in arguments like this is RJ Rummelt: "Death by Government". He has his own webpage and thus cannot be trusted (see above). But while I wouldn't bet my first-born's life on his numbers if I had one, Rummelt's work does have the advantage of being peer-reviewed. His ranking is:

1) Soviet Communists (60 million)
2) Chinese Communists (35 million)
3) German Nazis. (20 million)

Unlike you, though, Rummelt isn't counting people killed in wars. Also note that there are many more Russians and Chinese around to be murdered than Germans. If democide was an equal-opportunity enterprise, I'm fairly sure Hitler would have killed the most people.