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You will do whatever it is you do?

 
 
Reply Tue 12 May, 2015 11:37 pm
Should "you do" be removed from "You will do whatever it is you do" and the meaning will be kept intact?

Context:

And if you decide to switch bins - "I wasn't going to buy the book, but now I will, just to spite you!" - you cannot account for that decision either. You will do whatever it is you do, and it is meaningless to assert that you could have done otherwise.

Full context see Sam Harris's Free Will
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layman
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Reply Wed 13 May, 2015 09:25 am
@oristarA,
You could, of course, say the same thing in many different ways. But to just omit "you do" would leave you with this:

"You will do whatever it is."

That wouldn't make sense, really. In every day speech, you might ALSO leave out "it is," and people would know what you're saying (although it still wouldn't make complete grammatical sense), leaving:

"You will do whatever, and it is meaningless to assert that you could have done otherwise.

Here the "whatever" is used to imply the rest, i.e. whatever it is that you end up doing.

This is just a comment on the substance of his claim, not the grammar: He says:

Quote:
...it is meaningless to assert that you could have done otherwise.


If it is truly meaningless to say that, then it would be just as meaningless to say the opposite, i.e., "it is meaningless to assert that you could NOT have done otherwise."

"Meaningless" is an inappropriate term here. Beware whenever someone tries to dismiss an idea by calling it "meaningless."

oristarA
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2015 08:52 pm
@layman,
layman wrote:

You could, of course, say the same thing in many different ways. But to just omit "you do" would leave you with this:

"You will do whatever it is."

That wouldn't make sense, really. In every day speech, you might ALSO leave out "it is," and people would know what you're saying (although it still wouldn't make complete grammatical sense), leaving:

"You will do whatever, and it is meaningless to assert that you could have done otherwise.

Here the "whatever" is used to imply the rest, i.e. whatever it is that you end up doing.
This is just a comment on the substance of his claim, not the grammar: He says:

Quote:
...it is meaningless to assert that you could have done otherwise.


If it is truly meaningless to say that, then it would be just as meaningless to say the opposite, i.e., "it is meaningless to assert that you could NOT have done otherwise."

"Meaningless" is an inappropriate term here. Beware whenever someone tries to dismiss an idea by calling it "meaningless."




Thanks.
But my mind somehow got mysteriously confused on the seemingly simple grammatical phenomenon (my sense of reason tells me it must be simple).
As best as I could understand, did you mean that "whatever it is you do" refers to "whatever it is that you do"? Because I could clearly comprehend your example: whatever it is that you end up doing.
layman
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2015 08:59 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
As best as I could understand, did you mean that "whatever it is you do" refers to "whatever it is that you do"?


Yeah, Oris, that's what I take him to be intending (trying to say). But I agree with you that is was not well-phrased and probably not proper grammar (I don't pretend to know all the formal rules of grammar, but it doesn't quite make grammatical sense to me the way he put it).
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FBM
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2015 09:49 pm
@oristarA,
Quote:
"whatever it is that you do"


Yes, it relative clause with the relative pronoun elided for conciseness.
layman
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 May, 2015 09:55 pm
@FBM,
Quote:
...with the relative pronoun elided for conciseness.


Not sure quite what you actually mean by this, FBM, but I would note that it would be more "concise" if he just left out all pronouns completely. Maybe not more comprehensible, of course, but certainly more "concise."
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