6
   

Madison bans discrimination against atheists, non-religious

 
 
timur
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 May, 2015 02:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
You, on the other hand, are valueless.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 02:31 am
@timur,
Frustration is a bitch, Timur.

But you are handling it like a two year old...almost.



http://ericsyfrett.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/istock_sunemotion-1-frustrated-baby-crying-c.jpg
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  3  
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 02:17 pm
Just short of 2 days and.
. . . . . . .
Guess who blinked?
Ohmagawsh!!
Laughing
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  2  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 12:20 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Post all the "imaginary friend", "doesn't exist" nonsense as you guys want.

It merely confirms what I have been saying all along...atheists are as defiant about their guesses as are theists...and atheists are as much "believers" as are theists.
http://able2know.org/topic/277816-24#post-5972310
How so frank? Surely even you do not mind taking an educated guess that the god of the Bible is fictitious.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 03:33 am
@mesquite,
Quote:
How so frank? Surely even you do not mind taking an educated guess that the god of the Bible is fictitious.

Not at all, Mesquite. In my opinion, the best guess about the Bible is that it is a self-serving history of the ancient Hebrews interspersed with a creation mythology no more compelling than the creation mythologies of ancient Greece and Rome, for instance.

I not only guess the god of the Bible to be a myth...but I consider it to be one of the most abominable myths about gods.

That has no impact on what I said in the quoted comment.
mesquite
 
  3  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 09:55 am
@Frank Apisa,
Good to see, but the "imaginary friend" and "does not exist" posts that you were criticizing were clearly in reference to the fictional god of the Bible.

What sort of qualifier terminology would make this cartoon acceptable to you?
http://ethanwiner.com/atheist.gif
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 11:23 am
@mesquite,
The cartoon is acceptable to me as is, Mesquite. It is a cartoon.

It is a cartoon probably created by an atheist suggesting that there are no gods...despite the fact that it seems centered on the gods of the Bible...and especially the god of Christianity.

As far as I am concerned, it does what I suggested it does.

Anyway, I get a kick out of atheists who look down their noses at people who believe there is at least one god...while touting their own belief that there are none as a product of reason, logic and science....none of which raise the atheist belief above that of the theist.

Do you understand where I am coming from on that?

And if you disagree...tell me why and we can discuss it.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 03:42 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Anyway, I get a kick out of atheists who look down their noses at people who believe there is at least one god...while touting their own belief that there are none as a product of reason, logic and science....none of which raise the atheist belief above that of the theist.
One problem I see in the collective mention of reason, logic, and science is certainty. 100% positive correlations are not in the realm of measurable scientific test results. There is always some untested or otherwise unknown variable to affect "certainty". Yet, we readily spend our hard earned dough on cars, TVs, and cell phones provided by the "wonders of science".
Ain't that grand?
We get all that good stuff without being certain. And it's OK because certainty is not required. Probability is good enough.

Reason and logic are different animals, however. It's possible to construct tight syllogistic systems where absolute certainty is possible. If you accept the axioms of plane geometry, for example, the opposite angles of 2 intersecting straight lines are always equal. Not every discipline is so tight, however. You get reults dependant on the validity of axioms, data, etc.

So it boils down to "where do we start?" And what level of "proof" is acceptable?

Battery dying and no backup. See ya later.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 04:23 pm
@neologist,
One...I am not asking for "proof" of anything, Neo...never have and never will.

I think I mentioned that very strongly once before. Why are we revisiting this?

Two...I am saying that one cannot get to "there are no gods" or "it is more likely there are no gods than that there is at least one" using science, reason, or logic.

I stand by that.

Why bring up that other stuff in a reply to me...when I did not even touch on it.

If you can show how anyone can get to "there are no gods" or "it is more likely there are no gods than that there is at least one" using logic, reason, or science...present it.

(Hint: You cannot!)
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 05:04 pm
@mesquite,
mesquite wrote:
What sort of qualifier terminology would make this cartoon acceptable to you?


Black and white, because if it's in colour my eyes are fucked.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 05:27 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Your words, Frank
Reason, logic, science.
If they are insufficient for proof/ disproof of divinity, what would be?
If nothing, then would you say if there is a God, he has abandoned us?
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 15 Jun, 2015 06:51 pm
@neologist,
neologist wrote:

Your words, Frank
Reason, logic, science.


Yes, my words. None of them lead to "there are no gods" or "it is more likely that there are no gods than that there are."


Quote:
If they are insufficient for proof/ disproof of divinity, what would be?


Beats the piss out of me.

I think anyone asserting there is a GOD...or there are no gods...is just making a blind guess.

What about you?


Quote:

If nothing, then would you say if there is a God, he has abandoned us?


If there is a GOD, IT may not be interested in us at all. Maybe never has been. No abandonment...just not interested.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  2  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 12:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

The cartoon is acceptable to me as is, Mesquite. It is a cartoon.

It is a cartoon probably created by an atheist suggesting that there are no gods...despite the fact that it seems centered on the gods of the Bible...and especially the god of Christianity.

As far as I am concerned, it does what I suggested it does.
That is a rather large assumption on your part.

Frank Apisa wrote:
Anyway, I get a kick out of atheists who look down their noses at people who believe there is at least one god...while touting their own belief that there are none as a product of reason, logic and science....none of which raise the atheist belief above that of the theist.
A2k has quite a few atheists. Can you name one other than possibly edgar that does as you accuse us of?

Frank Apisa wrote:
Do you understand where I am coming from on that?

And if you disagree...tell me why and we can discuss it.[/b]
The only gods that concern me are the ones that affect me through others belief in them.

I do not deny that there is the possibility of the existence of some yet to be named god, but at the same time I do not feel compelled to constantly restate the possibility of some nondescript entity.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 12:29 pm
@mesquite,
mesquite wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

The cartoon is acceptable to me as is, Mesquite. It is a cartoon.

It is a cartoon probably created by an atheist suggesting that there are no gods...despite the fact that it seems centered on the gods of the Bible...and especially the god of Christianity.

As far as I am concerned, it does what I suggested it does.
That is a rather large assumption on your part.


I don't consider it as "large" at all. I consider it is rather obvious. Glaringly obvious to me.

Quote:


Frank Apisa wrote:
Anyway, I get a kick out of atheists who look down their noses at people who believe there is at least one god...while touting their own belief that there are none as a product of reason, logic and science....none of which raise the atheist belief above that of the theist.
A2k has quite a few atheists. Can you name one other than possibly edgar that does as you accuse us of?


Yes, I can, but I would prefer not to do so.

However, I will acknowledge my guess that EVERY atheist in this forum, whether he/she acknowledges it or not...is of the opinion either that there are no gods...or that it is more likely there are no gods than that there aren't.

And I am simply noting that while someone can come to that conclusion...it does not come as a result of reason, logic, or science. It comes the way theists come to their position.



Quote:

Frank Apisa wrote:
Do you understand where I am coming from on that?

And if you disagree...tell me why and we can discuss it.[/b]
The only gods that concern me are the ones that affect me through others belief in them.

I do not deny that there is the possibility of the existence of some yet to be named god, but at the same time I do not feel compelled to constantly restate the possibility of some nondescript entity.


Then don't, Mesquite. But don't suppose it appropriate to suggest that I not do so...or that it is inappropriate for me to do so.
neologist
 
  0  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 01:05 pm
@mesquite,
Frank Apisa wrote:
Anyway, I get a kick out of atheists who look down their noses at people who believe there is at least one god...while touting their own belief that there are none as a product of reason, logic and science....none of which raise the atheist belief above that of the theist.
mesquite wrote:
A2k has quite a few atheists. Can you name one other than possibly edgar that does as you accuse us of?
To be fair, the general consensus among many a2k non believers is to assume an air of intellectual superiority over believers.
I think that droll.
Present company excepted, of course.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 01:22 pm
@neologist,
Actually, I seem to be the ONLY "non-believer" here...and I seem to catch lots and lots of flack for being a non-believer. My comment "I do not do believing" seems to drive some people nuts.

Most of the atheists ARE believers. They simply "believe" in a direction opposite from you, Neo. They "believe" that there are no gods...or it is more likely there are no gods than that there are.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Jun, 2015 03:09 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Sheesh, Frank.
Living in New Jersey, have you ever been to Fairview or North Bergen?
You sound like Nungessers to me.
0 Replies
 
mesquite
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 04:20 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:
However, I will acknowledge my guess that EVERY atheist in this forum, whether he/she acknowledges it or not...is of the opinion either that there are no gods...or that it is more likely there are no gods than that there aren't.

And I am simply noting that while someone can come to that conclusion...it does not come as a result of reason, logic, or science. It comes the way theists come to their position.
Ah yes . . . bias does color ones perception, but I will give you this . . . It is my opinion that the possibility that there exists a god which created the universe and which also takes an active interest in the affairs of individual humans is extremely remote.

Frank Apisa wrote:

mesquite wrote:

The only gods that concern me are the ones that affect me through others belief in them.

I do not deny that there is the possibility of the existence of some yet to be named god, but at the same time I do not feel compelled to constantly restate the possibility of some nondescript entity.
Then don't, Mesquite. But don't suppose it appropriate to suggest that I not do so...or that it is inappropriate for me to do so.
Of course not Frank. Such a suggestion would most likley have a similar outcome as attempting to teach a pig to sing.
Frank Apisa
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 04:33 pm
@mesquite,
Quote:
Ah yes . . . bias does color ones perception, but I will give you this . . . It is my opinion that the possibility that there exists a god which created the universe and which also takes an active interest in the affairs of individual humans is extremely remote.


I have no problem with that. But if you assert that you come to that estimation via logic, reason, or science...I will call you on it.

Some people think a god of that sort is almost a certainty...some think it is almost an impossibility.

I get that...and I honestly have no beef with it.


Quote:
Of course not Frank. Such a suggestion would most likley have a similar outcome as attempting to teach a pig to sing.


If that is the best way you could put that thought...fine. I think it was cheap...and a bit cowardly.
mesquite
 
  3  
Reply Wed 17 Jun, 2015 11:45 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Quote:
Ah yes . . . bias does color ones perception, but I will give you this . . . It is my opinion that the possibility that there exists a god which created the universe and which also takes an active interest in the affairs of individual humans is extremely remote.


I have no problem with that. But if you assert that you come to that estimation via logic, reason, or science...I will call you on it.

Some people think a god of that sort is almost a certainty...some think it is almost an impossibility.

I get that...and I honestly have no beef with it.
I have no beef with it either. That does not make both propositions have equal probability. For some in the almost a certainty crowd, strong survival instincts could play a role. It is after all a short life on earth vs eternal life which is at stake.

I like the way Carl Sagan gave perspective to our significance in this universe.

"We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people."
Carl Sagan

Frank Apisa wrote:
mesquite wrote:
Of course not Frank. Such a suggestion would most likley have a similar outcome as attempting to teach a pig to sing.


If that is the best way you could put that thought...fine. I think it was cheap...and a bit cowardly.
Cheap? . . .cowardly?. . .when did you become so thin skinned? No offense was intended Frank. I just thought it aptly portrayed the futility of my suggesting that you not make your favorite comments. By the way, did you know that neo has on more than one occasion accused me of being one of Frank's toadies?
 

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