Bernie's In

But there is so much more proof that Cheney was a crooked money grubbing self serving asshole than their is for Hillary, in spite of your obvious hatred of her.

I dont buy that people choose to keep responding to boring, just as I dont buy Firefly's argument that I am the guy in the tin foil hat as she writes tens of thousands of words trying to demean me and counter my arguments. This is were being educated enough to understand human nature comes in.

Shall I count you out of the educated bracket of the A2K roster?

word

But you do buy Trump is actually very smart. Your addled brain will buy anything with a swastika on it.

People used to visit Bedlam to view the mental patients, responding to your posts is the 21st century equivalent.

That's clarifying. And here I was starting to like her a little more than I have been (which has been not much). We'll see. I don't know what I'll think at primary time or by October next year, but I can guess.

I have just finished a hefty New Yorker article on Bernie, which made me see him a little more clearly. I still prefer him/his views. Among the interesting things in the article, to me, were the comments on his working well with business in Burlington, making him not somehow an anti business monster mad man. Lots there too about his working with Republicans on various issues. Lots about his background, which he is usually quiet about. Some fair amount about his personality, described toward the end as not convivial, which has good aspects and I assume can turn people off too.

Oh, there was an interesting point brought up in there about his immigration stance versus other Dem's takes, with a hispanic activist's (immigration rights organizer Angelica Salas) preference for Martin O'Malley's viewpoint. I've some reading to do on all that.

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/10/12/the-populist-prophet
(I'm almost always behind on my NYer reading, but this issue is only a week and some days old now)

One of the important considerations...outside of what people think about policy and likability of a candidate is...

...who has the better chance of being elected.

I love Bernie and his policies. I don't think he goes quite far enough toward some of the goals I want...but he does his best.

But I am absolutely convinced he cannot be elected.

The Republicans would love to see him as the candidate they face, because the race would stop being "the Republican Party candidate" versus "the Democratic Party candidate"...

...and become "the Republican Party candidate" versus "SOCIALISM!"

If you think you've heard too much from the GOP about Hillary Clinton's emails...and "Benghazi, Benghazi, Benghazi"...just let Bernie Sanders get the Democratic Party nominations...and the explosion of "SOCIALISM" would drown out the memories in a few weeks.

Bernie Sanders is the wet dream of Republicans right now.

For anyone who thinks keeping the Republicans out of the White House is paramount...it is something to consider carefully.

Yeah, but Frank, anyone of good conscience would have to at least be given a little pause when it's made clear how compromised Hillary's loyalties are, and how much she is still in association with big money donors. I am not the type to use my one ballot as a protest vote, in favor of principle; vowing to never again vote the lesser of evils - and I won't. But you cannot tell me you are totally unaffected or oblivious to all the equivocation and triangulation and cynical politics that Clinton is clearly infected with.

I will take all those things into consideration, Snood. My point was that "does it seem likely the person will win" is something that ought not be given short shrift either.

I am convinced this country is not ready to elect someone who identifies as a "socialist"...no matter what qualification is added.

I cannot see Bernie Sanders winning...and that certainly will be a major consideration for me.

As for Hillary Clinton's "loyalties" are concerned...I think she made the right choice to take the money. There are NO obligations...no matter what. Once elected, what are they going to do...sue her to get their way. TAKE THE MONEY...our country has made the need for money an important part of getting elected...and the Republicans are not going to "not take the money."

As for what is perceived by so many as equivocation, triangulation, and cynicism...I see someone DETERMINED to win the election. If she wants to win just for a personal win...too bad. I'd rather it be because she honestly thinks she can do a better job than anyone else running right now.

But I do know that I trust her MUCH, MUCH more than any Republican when it comes to nominations for the SCOTUS...and as I see it, nominations for the SCOTUS is what this election is all about.

I may be wrong...but as I see it:

Clinton can win; Sanders cannot; any win by the GOP puts this country on the wrong course for decades to come...perhaps forever.

Do what you have to do. I know what I am going to do.

Damn, Frank - you get so into repeating your mantra "Bernie can't win, Hillary can, she's better than a republican, I'm voting for hillary" that you don't even seem to notice when someone's agreeing with you. You advised that it be given consideration that she has the best chance to win; I advised that the fact that she's got shadiness can't just be ignored. That's all.

Ring a ding ding, you sure have Franks number.

Its going to be interesting to see if the mainstream press will start covering Bernie's campaign.

Well, it took a whole lot of months but they are finally taking Trump seriously, at least a bit, so never say never.

Sanders points to Clinton's shifts on issues
Source: AP

By KEN THOMAS and CATHERINE LUCEY

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) — Hillary Rodham Clinton and Bernie Sanders dueled for support among thousands of Iowa Democrats on Saturday, seeking an edge at a high-profile fundraising dinner that could set the tone for the leadoff presidential caucuses in February.

Sanders, the independent Vermont senator, used his speech to draw sharp contrasts with Clinton on a number of issues, implicitly criticizing her delayed opposition to the Trans-Pacific Partnership and Keystone XL pipeline as well as her vote in favor of the Iraq war.

Without naming Clinton, he pointedly criticized the passage of the Defense of Marriage Act during Bill Clinton's administration, saying in prepared remarks, "some are trying to rewrite history by saying they voted for one anti-gay law to stop something worse. Let us be clear. That's just not true." Hillary Clinton said in an interview with MSNBC on Friday that the law was signed as a "defensive action."

"I will govern based on principle not poll numbers," Sanders said. "I pledge to you that every day I will fight for the public interest not the corporate interests." He vowed "not to abandon any segment of American society — whether you're gay or black or Latino or poor or working class — just because it is politically expedient at a given time."

FULL story at link.


Democratic presidential candidate Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt., speaks during the Iowa Democratic Party's Jefferson-Jackson Dinner, Saturday, Oct. 24, 2015, in Des Moines, Iowa. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

Read more: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/1be336afac08487e889144b88ba83fe3/clinton-sanders-omalley-coming-iowa-fundraising-dinner

Clinton is such a horrible politician that even Sanders is beating her. She is going to either violate that non aggression pack she signed with Sanders or regret agreeing to it.

I did get that, Snood. And nothing I said in my response indicated that I was disagreeing with you...or that I resented what you said in any way.

What problem do you have with me sharing my views?

I will repeat what I am saying as often as I like.

I've tried being courteous to you...even friendly, but unless I kiss your ass, you seem to resent what I say.

If you do not like what I have to say...just do not read what I write.

Definite communication glitch happening. I don't resent what you say. I don't expect anyone to kiss my ass. Repeating a point when no one is disputing the point is surely your prerogative, just as its mine to point that out. I'll read or not read what I choose to. Peace.

Peace back at ya, Snood.