Lash
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 06:11 pm
@ossobuco,
Heh. I'll let you know if my desire to drive back to CA materializes. Loved ALBQ.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 06:21 pm
@ossobuco,
More memories: on one of my first drives up there through or just out of the forest re hearing radio, there was an announcement about helicopters. I'd say, warning about helicopters. I was bemused at the time.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 06:35 pm
@Lash,
I'm working to not hate Albuquerque. I don't usually hate land.
ossobuco
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 07:09 pm
@ossobuco,
We should pm, otherwise we'd develop a melodrama and then get popular and earn millions..
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 09:29 pm
Bernie Sanders Gives 6 HUGE REASONS To Pick Him Over Hillary

"....Bernie Sanders is a simple guy and always has been. Instead, of eating his meals in the formal Senate dining room, he chooses to hang out in the basement cafeteria and discuss politics with lower-level interns. That really says a lot about him. He enjoys talking to and meeting new people and doesn’t have an ego, unlike so many other people in power..."

Bernie Sanders is gaining some tremendous momentum with his poll numbers, and picking up a lot of ground on Hillary Clinton. A new Des Moines Register/Bloomberg Politics Iowa Poll has the Senator only seven points behind Hillary Clinton leading up to the Iowa caucus, and there’s still a lot of time left to pick up more ground. Support has practically been dropping for Clinton like flies. In the last eight months, Hillary has lost nearly 20% of her support. People are starting to realize that not only is there not just one default candidate, but there are some major stark differences between the two leading Democratic candidates running for President.

Bernie Sanders is doing his best to identify those differences. He spoke to CNN’s Jake Tapper on Sunday and listed six that everyone needs to be aware of:


1. “I believe that, when you have so few banks with so much power, you have to not only reestablish Glass-Steagall, but you have got to break them up. That is not Hillary Clinton’s position.”

2. “I believe that our trade policies, NAFTA, CAFTA, PNTR with China, have been a disaster. I am helping to lead the effort against the Trans-Pacific Partnership. That is not Hillary Clinton’s position.”

3. “We have to be aggressive in transforming our energy system away from fossil fuel, and defeat the Keystone pipeline. That is not Hillary Clinton’s position.”

4. “I believe that, as opposed to my Republican colleagues who want to cut Social Security, I believe we should expand Social Security by lifting the cap on taxable income. That’s not Hillary Clinton’s position.”

5. “I believe that we have got to raise the minimum wage over a period of several years to $15 an hour – not Hillary Clinton’s position.”

6. “I voted against the war in Iraq. Hillary Clinton voted for it.”




Bernie Sanders is not your big establishment candidate. He doesn’t hang out with the “rich crowd.” In fact, he is one of the least wealthy candidates running for office. According to his latest tax filings, he has an average net worth of $330,507 as compared to that of Hillary Clinton, who along with her husband, earned $30 million over the last 16 months alone.



cont'

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/08/30/bernie-sanders-gives-6-huge-reasons-to-pick-him-over-hillary-video/
georgeob1
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 09:45 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
True in all points. Give Bernie the reins and we will be a bigger version of Greece in short order.

Happily I believe this danger is remote. Bernie's popularity is (In my view) more likely a reflection of a general dissatisfaction with ethe establishment Democrat candidate and things as they are, than a specific enthusiasm for what he wants and the results it will produce. A somewhat analogous thing is going on amidst Republicans with Trump.

Both have succeeded so far well beyond what I thought was attainable, so I don't claim to fully understasnd what is going on here (and in these strange times I'm also skeptical of anyone else who claims to understand it all too).

I still expect that over the next six months both will peak and be replaced by a resurgent alternative. The Democrat establishment is better organized now with an incumbent President. I find it very hard to believe that they will ever calculate they could win the national election with Bernie as their candidate.

The Republicans are less united and more internally divided so this effect is a good deal less important among them. However, I suspect few will see Trump as one of their own and even fewer would wish to see him as their candidate.

It's possible that continued energetic public support could sweep all this party politics aside on Sanders & Trump waves, but, with an eye on history, I find it highly unlikely.

What is the Chinese curse ? "May you live in interesting times."
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 09:55 pm
Bernie Sanders Stands for: A Fair and Humane Immigration Policy

Despite the central role immigrants play in our economy and in our daily lives, undocumented workers are reviled by some for political gain and shunted into the shadows. It is time for this disgraceful situation to end. This country faces enormous problems and they will not be solved unless we are united. It is time to end the politics of division in this country.

We cannot and we should not be talking about sweeping up millions of men, women, and children – many of whom have been here for years – and throwing them out of the country. That’s wrong and that type of discussion has got to end.

http://i.imgur.com/N7cJspx.jpg

In 2008, Sen. Sanders traveled to the tomato fields of southern Florida and met with migrant workers who were paid paltry wages for back-breaking work. After his visit, Sanders invited leaders of the Coalition of Immokalee Workers to come to Washington and testify at a Senate committee hearing where they confronted growers on abusive labor practices. The result in Immokalee, Florida was better working conditions and increased pay.

But how many more Immokalees are out there? How many fields or factories are there where people – often without legal status – are used up and thrown away? We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.

Many in the business community have argued for a massive expansion of temporary guest worker programs as the answer to the immigration issue. That is not the answer. As the Southern Poverty Law Center has documented, guest workers are routinely cheated out of wages, held virtually captive by employers who seize their documents, forced to live in inhumane conditions and denied medical treatment for on-the-job injuries.

In addition, we as a nation have got to realize the importance of dealing not just with the issue of immigration but with the very real refugee crisis we face. It was appalling last year when so many voices were insisting that the large numbers of desperate, unaccompanied children who crossed our borders be turned away or simply shipped back to their country of origin like a package marked return to sender.

http://i.imgur.com/iP6jg1q.jpg

Unfortunately, American policy in Latin America has too often made difficult economic and political problems even worse. For example, supporters of NAFTA told us that this unfettered free trade agreement would increase the standard of living in Mexico and significantly reduce the flow of undocumented immigrants into this country as a result. The opposite was true.

Since the implementation of NAFTA, the number of Mexicans living below the poverty line has increased by over 14 million people. Almost 2 million small farmers have been displaced. And in the twenty years since NAFTA growth in per capita GDP has been only half of that experienced by other Latin American nations. Not surprisingly we have seen a 185 percent increase in the number of undocumented immigrants from Mexico from 1992 to 2011.

AS PRESIDENT, SENATOR BERNIE SANDERS WILL:

1. Sign comprehensive immigration reform into law to bring over 11 million undocumented workers out of the shadows. We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.

2. Oppose tying immigration reform to the building of a border fence. Undocumented workers come to the United States to escape economic hardship and political persecution. Tying reform to unrealistic and unwise border patrol proposals renders the promise illusory for millions seeking legal status.

3. Sign the DREAM Act into law to offer the opportunity of permanent residency and eventual citizenship to young people who were brought to the United States as children. We must recognize the young men and women who comprise the DREAMers for who they are – American kids who deserve the right to legally be in the country they know as home.

4. Expand President Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program to include the parents of citizens, parents of legal permanent residents, and the parents of DREAMERs. We need to pursue policies that unites families and does not tear them apart.

5. Authorize and substantially increase funding for the Legal Services Corporation to provide legal representation to guest workers who have been abused by their employers. Further, employers should be required to reimburse guest workers for housing, transportation expenses and workers’ compensation.

6. Substantially increase prevailing wages that employers are required to pay temporary guest workers. If there is a true labor shortage, employers should be offering higher, not lower wages.

7. Rewrite our trade policies to end the race to the bottom and lift the living standards of workers in this country and our trading partners. Not only have free trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA hurt U.S. workers, they have been a disaster for small farmers in Mexico and Central America.




https://berniesanders.com/issues/fair-and-humane-immigration-policy/
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 31 Aug, 2015 10:26 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

So someone can repeatedly say something stupid, but if you point it out that's harassment.

Your concept of acceptable free speech is something that changes on a day to day basis depending on what you're arguing about.


That's bullshit. The problem is the personal attacks.

Everybody says stupid things sometimes. That isn't a problem. If you want to say someone's idea is stupid, or that what they say in that particular instance, that also isn't a problem. There is nothing uncivil about stating your opinion on a matter even if that means disagreeing (or even criticizing) what someone just said. This is all part of a reasonable debate.

If you argue that what I just said is wrong (or even stupid) I may defend myself, but I won't ever fault you. That isn't what you are doing that upsets me.

What Izzy, Setanta, et al are doing is launching personal attacks... not aimed at what is being said or at the ideas being expressed... but at the person who is saying. Calling people "liar", or "woman-hater" or "******* idiot" all cross the line. You are no longer arguing an idea on its merits or expressing an opinion. Instead you are attacking a person in a way that has zero to do with the debate (after all, even if you are correct about a person being a woman-hating ******* idiot, they might be right in any particular debate... and if they are defending their opinion, you should read and respond to the things being said in that context).

There is a big difference between arguing an opinion and a personal attack. (And this is why I am a bit surprised that Frank would ever side with Izzy against Lash).

Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 02:11 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
What Izzy, Setanta, et al are doing is launching personal attacks... not aimed at what is being said or at the ideas being expressed... but at the person who is saying. Calling people "liar", or "woman-hater" or "******* idiot" all cross the line.

Or even "pedophile" (Izzy to Bill on the Snowden thread)... That's down-right defamatory.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 02:26 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:



There is a big difference between arguing an opinion and a personal attack. (And this is why I am a bit surprised that Frank would ever side with Izzy against Lash).


Max...Lash is one of the most egregious personal attackers on this site. Not sure what particular agreement with Izzy you are referencing, but I can think of many times where disagreeing with Lash is more reasonable than agreeing with her.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 03:10 am
@Olivier5,
Nothing defamatory about it. I've said why BillRM is considered a paedophile by many on this forum.

Quote:
These are the reasons I think you're (BillRM) a risk to children. On a thread about a paedophile watching graphic child pornography on a plane, so graphic that witnesses needed counselling, your first response was to talk about computer security. You showed no concern for the children whatsoever, and boasted about your computer security, and how something like that could never happen to you, because of computer security, and no other reason.

You tried to belittle the material the individual was watching claiming it was just artistic Victorian style nudity where the opposite was true. You argue that that's what most child pornography is, innocuous stuff that could have been put up in a gallery twenty years ago. Blaming everything on over zealous policing and a puritanical government.

In any story about rape or abuse your sympathies always lie with the accused, never the victim. Not only that, you attack the character of the victim and belittle the ordeal. You regard viewing child pornography as a victimless crime, deny that anyone makes money out of it, and call for the sentencing of paedophiles to be more lenient, at the same time arguing that the State of Texas should execute a man before examining forensic evidence that could exonerate him.

Your ex wife took out a restraining order against you. And you were thrown out of a park for talking to children whilst carrying a box of kittens. (That's not even a cliché it's a trope)

You wanted to walk down memory lane, so there you go. I don't throw such charges around lightly.



http://able2know.org/topic/285616-10<br /> <br /> Max is a liar, he is not a single parent, and he represented himself as one knowing it was a deliberate lie.

You're just upset because nobody has accepted your racist bullshit about how it's fine to portray black people as monkeys.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 04:20 am
@maxdancona,
I'm not sure where this manners talk came from. This place has been the Last Chance Saloon for the most part of its existence - featuring some of the most vicious attacks I've ever seen, including attacks by me.

I've mellowed a bit as have some other members.

I see Frank and I mentioned although I don't know why. He also has a reputation for deep and low attack. We were never friends or enemies. We dislike each other currently due to my political opinion and his response to it. Neither of us are losing sleep over it.

I'm used to the say what you think vibe on A2K.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 04:24 am
@izzythepush,
You are disgusting.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 04:27 am
I'm outa here. I used to look forward to it, but now the whole place just disgusts me. You guys keep up the fun.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 04:39 am
@Olivier5,
That's rich coming from you. You're a pathetic little racist who will cosy up to all manner of woman haters and nonces to pursue your agenda.

http://www.seton.co.uk/media/catalog/product/d/m/dmeu_8hg14_1_std.lang.all.jpg
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 06:27 am
@Frank Apisa,
I haven't noticed that about Lash. I don't see her making any personal attacks, at least not on the threads I have been involved with.

Izzy, on the other hand, can't seem to stop. It is humorous in a way.

Izzy wrote:
You're a pathetic little racist who will cosy up to all manner of woman haters and nonces to pursue your agenda.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 06:31 am
@Lash,
Lash wrote:
I'm used to the say what you think vibe on A2K.


Me too, if nothing else it's honest.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 06:43 am
@Olivier5,
Ollie, BillRM wrote on this forum he was arrested by police after he was seen in a playground around children with a box of kittens. Izzy did not make that up.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 06:45 am
@izzythepush,
Nice try, Iz. Ollie will not be able to process it, but a nice try.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Tue 1 Sep, 2015 06:46 am
@Olivier5,
Can't handle the truth, can you?
0 Replies
 
 

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