bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 12:42 pm
@RABEL222,
I forgot to add my favorite Chicago appeal to a voter's civic duty to vote: ''Death is no excuse not to vote."
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Aug, 2015 03:39 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
OK, You topped me. I give up.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  7  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 07:56 am
I liked this one, so thought I'd share it:

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/11891001_560111747470935_7443767705934263747_n.jpg?oh=5c0d3f9dd087ae8d7b66cc8027a5bdd9&oe=56790DA2
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 07:18 pm
Scott Walker looks developmentally delayed - not that there's anything wrong with that...but it may not be one of the traits you hope for in your president.

Graham looks spoofishly gay...and you know I love my gay folk. March in their parades and vote for their shite every damn time, but he looks Howdy Doody- painted-on-gay. Again...

I do appreciate Rick Perry putting on some glasses, but the intelligence factor is cosmetic. (Somebody mention it to him.)

I hate Walker most, quietly hoping Trump is a legit joke.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sun 23 Aug, 2015 07:33 pm
@Lash,
I think Walker got sunk by lack of self confidence. He was expecting to be able to talk about a "Wisconsin economic miracle " but cant, and even the R's in Wisconsin are not too happy with him. He had the required moneymen support but could not make it happen on the trail.

Lash
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 03:59 am
@hawkeye10,
Thanks for the encouragement.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 04:59 am
The greater the push for more liberal candidates on the Dem ticket...

...the lesser the chances that the Dem's will retain the White House.

"Liberal" has become a swear word in America...and the sooner the firebrands on the far left come to grips with that...the greater the chances of America being redirected toward a saner goal than the right has been pushing it.

Some people on the far left will never get that message.

Some people on the left will get it...but are frustrated and want to throw clubs, so to speak.

The race is not won by the swiftest...but by those willing to do what has to be done for ultimate victory.

The left is making strides right now. To throw it all under the bus by reaching too far, too quickly is stupidity...not bravery.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 07:33 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank,

Have you considered the possibility that your perspective is exactly the reason that "liberal" has become a swear word in America.

Bill and Hillary Clinton did great damage to liberalism in American (and in my opinion to America as a whole) by doing exactly what you are claiming. They opposed gay marriage, they screwed the Palestinians. they eliminated social service programs. And then they did something even worse... by adding washed up policies and half-measures that muddied the water.

They did this as part of the political game, where winning is more important than progress and scoring points is more important than courage. This is what the Clinton machine is all about.

Instead of gay rights we got "don't ask don't tell". Instead of a real Mideast peace talks we got a farce. Instead of welfare reform we got "the end of Welfare as we know it". Instead of racial justice and addressing issues of poverty, we got the war on drugs and the acceleration of incarceration rates. All these policies were heavily marketed attempts to get votes from both sides.

This is the problem with Clinton. Even if it is the best way to get her elected, it isn't good for liberals and it isn't good for Democracy.

Maybe if the American left starts demanding leaders who will stand up for their rights and push real progressive policies we could start to change politics in America. Maybe we could have a real political discourse and make progress.

Hillary Clinton is the problem. Bernie Sanders is the solution.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 08:36 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
they screwed the Palestinians.
maxdancona wrote:
Instead of a real Mideast peace talks we got a farce.

This is factually wrong. The only obstacles in the peace talks were the Palestinians themselves.

Palestinians don't like peace. They would rather murder children for fun.

It is just as unfair to blame Bill Clinton for this as it is to blame Israel.


maxdancona wrote:
Instead of welfare reform we got "the end of Welfare as we know it". Instead of racial justice and addressing issues of poverty, we got the war on drugs and the acceleration of incarceration rates. All these policies were heavily marketed attempts to get votes from both sides.

This is the problem with Clinton. Even if it is the best way to get her elected, it isn't good for liberals and it isn't good for Democracy.

Perhaps not good for liberals, but good for moderates.

I do not agree that it harms democracy.


maxdancona wrote:
Maybe if the American left starts demanding leaders who will stand up for their rights and push real progressive policies we could start to change politics in America. Maybe we could have a real political discourse and make progress.

Hillary Clinton is the problem. Bernie Sanders is the solution.

Maybe America distrusts liberalism, and the future of the Democratic Party lies in moderation.


I kind of see the Democratic primaries as the inverse of how you see them. The 2013 gun control debacle means that the Republicans will win the general election no matter what. So if Sanders is the nominee that loses to the Republicans, it will harm the liberal cause. And if Hillary is the nominee that loses to the Republicans, it will harm the moderate cause.

I'd rather that Sanders was the Democratic nominee, so that when the Democrats get a chance to win an election in the future, it will more likely be a nice reliable moderate who is elected.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 01:17 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Frank,

Have you considered the possibility that your perspective is exactly the reason that "liberal" has become a swear word in America.

Bill and Hillary Clinton did great damage to liberalism in American (and in my opinion to America as a whole) by doing exactly what you are claiming. They opposed gay marriage, they screwed the Palestinians. they eliminated social service programs. And then they did something even worse... by adding washed up policies and half-measures that muddied the water.

They did this as part of the political game, where winning is more important than progress and scoring points is more important than courage. This is what the Clinton machine is all about.

Instead of gay rights we got "don't ask don't tell". Instead of a real Mideast peace talks we got a farce. Instead of welfare reform we got "the end of Welfare as we know it". Instead of racial justice and addressing issues of poverty, we got the war on drugs and the acceleration of incarceration rates. All these policies were heavily marketed attempts to get votes from both sides.

This is the problem with Clinton. Even if it is the best way to get her elected, it isn't good for liberals and it isn't good for Democracy.

Maybe if the American left starts demanding leaders who will stand up for their rights and push real progressive policies we could start to change politics in America. Maybe we could have a real political discourse and make progress.


And maybe the if the Dems did something like that, the party will end up in the trashcan of history...and with it, any chance of changing course from the steady move to the right.

Try to at least consider that, Max. I think putting someone like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren on the national ticket will destroy the Democratic chances...and will do more damage to the progressive agenda than the Republicans or far right have ever done.


Quote:
Hillary Clinton is the problem. Bernie Sanders is the solution.



I like Bernie Sanders. He is, however, far from being the "solution" to the problem right now. He is the Republican Party's wet dream for a Dem candidate...whether you can open your eyes enough to see it or not.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 01:33 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Putting everything into trying to win the next election has not only not been good for the D's, it has been bad for the D's. THey need to get back to coming up with ideas and then winning hearts and minds. Also take a look at what the Egyptian military did to the Muslim Brotherhood, there is a lesson there about playing for long term keeps.

You Frank represent a failed approach. Hopelessly failed. Since you like to think of yourself as a smart guy you might consider changing your opinion.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 01:44 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Putting everything into trying to win the next election has not only not been good for the D's, it has been bad for the D's. THey need to get back to coming up with ideas and then winning hearts and minds. Also take a look at what the Egyptian military did to the Muslim Brotherhood, there is a lesson there about playing for long term keeps.

You Frank represent a failed approach. Hopelessly failed. Since you like to think of yourself as a smart guy you might consider changing your opinion.


Winning the presidency in the next election should be paramount in the minds of any reasonable, logical Dem in this country. Sad as it is to say, if the Dems lose the White House in 2016...they will lose the SCOTUS for the next 3 to 4 decades...and that will be cataclysmic for a progressive agenda.

The loonies on the left who want to "stick to principle" no matter what...do not know what they are talking about. They are fools...on a fool's errand.

I thank you for giving the progressives here the benefit of your advice. I hope they look the fact that you (and Oralloy) are offering it squarely in the eye...and that they act on it in a manner befitting the manner in which you guys are offering it.

Sanders would be a disaster for the Dems.

Including Warren on the ticket would be a disaster. If that is where Biden is heading...I will be speaking up in opposition.

The Dems have this election to lose if they want to. If they want to win it...they ought to start acting as though they do.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 01:52 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
The Dems have this election to lose if they want to


Before Trump got in the consensus was that the only way for the D's to win this time was for the R's to mess up.

Quote:
The loonies on the left who want to "stick to principle" no matter what...do not know what they are talking about. They are fools...on a fool's errand.
That is not the argument, the argument is that the D's are bankrupt of ideas and moral courage, and if they ever want to be both winner and move the country forwards they need to come up with some ideas and other political capital. And this is way more important than who sits in the POTUS chair for four years. Especially now when Washington is all balled up, doing almost nothing, with no conceivable way to do anything in the near future other than blowing the place up, which Trump may well do.

EDIT: I agree with you that there is almost no hope that Sanders could be effective as president, and that the D's would likely be humiliated by the experience. My point here is simply that you only caring about winning the next election is a failed approach, that both you and the D's need to get beyond your short sightedness
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:01 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
The Dems have this election to lose if they want to


Before Trump got in the consensus was that the only way for the D's to win this time was for the R's to mess up.


Yeah...that seems to be what you think.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/97/Snickers-broken.png


Quote:

Quote:
The loonies on the left who want to "stick to principle" no matter what...do not know what they are talking about. They are fools...on a fool's errand.
That is not the argument, the argument is that the D's are bankrupt of ideas and moral courage, and if they ever want to be both winner and move the country forwards they need to come up with some ideas and other political capital. And this is way more important than who sits in the POTUS chair for four years. Especially now when Washington is all balled up, doing almost nothing, with no conceivable way to do anything in the near future other than blowing the place up, which Trump may well do.

EDIT: I agree with you that there is almost no hope that Sanders could be effective as president, and that the D's would likely be humiliated by the experience. My point here is simply that you only caring about winning the next election is a failed approach, that both you and the D's need to get beyond your short sightedness


I am NOT a Democrat...I am a registered Independent. But I realize that the next president will either be the candidate of the Republicans or of the Democrats.

I dread the thought of a Republican in that office.

If that bothers you...I hope you can get over it...because I am going to continue to dread it (and try to prevent it from happening) from now until Election Day.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:16 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.


- Jerry Garcia
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:23 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I am NOT a Democrat


Nor am I, but I am an American and I know that we need two parties with different ideas and who are not owned by the elite. I believe in diversity and in democracy so I will always place the importance of the D party healing and reforming above the importance of the D's winning any election, both for my benefit and for my fellow Americans.

http://progressivebumperstickers.com/images/683.jpg
Grow up Frank, stop letting fear run your life and ruin this country.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:25 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.


- Jerry Garcia



I don't suggest choosing the lesser of two evils.

I am suggesting "vote smart"...I am suggesting "a progressive agenda has never needed protection more than right now, be smart."


hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Constantly choosing the lesser of two evils is still choosing evil.


- Jerry Garcia



I don't suggest choosing the lesser of two evils.

I am suggesting "vote smart"...I am suggesting "a progressive agenda has never needed protection more than right now, be smart."





Then you are admitting that the progressive agenda is a flop. If it was good it could win on its own merits, it would not need affirmative action to live.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:30 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I am NOT a Democrat


Nor am I, but I am an American and I know that we need two parties with different ideas and who are not owned by the elite. I believe in diversity and in democracy so I will always place the importance of the D party healing and reforming above the importance of the D's winning any election, both for my benefit and for my fellow Americans.


Okay...and so the entire world has got to adopt that position?

Advocate for it...and get use to me advocating for the position I champion.

Your concern for the "D Party" is touching...and I hope the D's posting here take a real close look at that concern!



Quote:

http://progressivebumperstickers.com/images/683.jpg
Grow up Frank, stop letting fear run your life and ruin this country.


I am grown up, Hawk...which is why I am snickering at your supposed position on this.

You are a laugh a minute these days.

Hey...but thanks for the help.
Wink
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Aug, 2015 02:34 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
Then you are admitting that the progressive agenda is a flop.


C'mon, Hawk...you can do better than that.

Or are you just going for the laughs now?



https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTeU4vlJdHgVsK1ABeeBg0AtZiOrKvN16aUYdYa6DSZV9zpJBggxQ




Quote:
If it was good it could win on its own merits, it would not need affirmative action to live.


Tough world we live in...especially the political world. Ya wanna do as much as possible to move your agenda forward.

Sounds like you would rather the D's do what some of the loonie left is advocating.

It figures.

Now, if only the loonie left would look at what you are advocating...and think of the implications!
Wink
0 Replies
 
 

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