Bernie's In

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

I dont believe that my purpose in casting a vote for somebody is that they win, my purpose is that I win. Shaking up the elite, showing everyone what I believe, that I will not tolerate the desires of the masses being ignored, is me winning.

Fine. And you have a right to do that. I defend your right to do it.

I, however, am not interested in casting a vote to shake up anyone. I am interested in casting a vote to get someone other than a Republican into the White House...for the good of the nation and the world in general.

1 Reply

What bothers me is nature and time: when voting booths close. I wish we could start tabulations in the west sometimes, to be fair, or, better to somehow get rid of the closing time differential and subsequent beezwax.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

Lash wrote:

They leave him out of the primary narrative and occasionally bring him up in preface to why he can't win.

How could any legitimate news source not question Sanders ability to win in the United States...considering a large percentage of the country think HILLARY CLINTON is too far left for them????

A large percentage of the country thought BILL CLINTON was too far left.

Why can't the left fringe regain consciousness...and actually take a look at the political climate of our country...and the determination of the right.

Bernie Sanders, wonderful, thoughtful man that he may be...

...does not stand a chance of any kind to be elected president of the United States.

And if the Republicans decided to run Howdy Doody in an attempt to throw the election to him...the right would rise up and start a civil war over it.

What Lash and Edgar are doing is peddling insanity at the moment. I hope they soon come to their senses.

But Sanders is NOT going to be the Dem candidate, because most of the Dem base is smart enough to realize it would be a disaster for the party to nominate him...and they will overwhelm the few loonies on the fringe left to stop it from happening.

People were this cocksure that Barack Hussein Obama had a snowball's chance also. I understand your views that this country's electorate will absolutely not do something like choose Sanders (and you may be right - I was more sure myself 3 months ago than now). But someone who is resolutely agnostic about some of the biggest mysteries just seems unreasonable to be absolutely closeminded about something like the whims of the American voter.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

I, however, am not interested in casting a vote to shake up anyone. I am interested in casting a vote to get someone other than a Republican into the White House...for the good of the nation and the world in general.

That makes no sense to me unless you plan to be dead in 5 years or so, and dont care about what happens to everyone else. Almost anything a president can do can be overturned, either by the courts or congress or a follow on president, getting the system to work is far more important than your goal. You sound like a corporate CEO that only cares what the books will look like in the next 5 quarters, a person who gives not a fig about the health of the country.

Re SCOTUS: that court is a complete cock-up even now, it either needs to be reformed or replaced. I see no way that happens till the court losses the respect of the people, so in my view throwing even worse people onto it than we already have just gets us to where we need to go faster. If I were voting for the good of the nation I might just have to vote for Trump.

1 Reply

@snood,

touche

1 Reply

@snood,

Sorry you think I am close-minded about this, Snood. I've tried to regularly use the "in my opinion" qualifier.

I do understand your concerns, however, and if you want me to add more "in my opinion" than I have included...I will try to do so.

Bernie Sanders, who in my opinion is a wonderful, thoughtful man...

...does not stand a chance of any kind, in my opinion, to be elected president of the United States. Of course, I might be wrong...but that is my opinion.

But it is my opinion that Sanders is NOT going to be the Dem candidate, because, in my opinion, most of the Dem base is smart enough to realize it would be a disaster for the party to nominate him...and, in my opinion, they will overwhelm the few loonies on the fringe left to stop it from happening.

At least, that is what, in my opinion, the situation is right now. Of course, I might be wrong...but my opinion is that I am right...that Sanders simply cannot win because of what, in my opinion, is the prevailing political climate of our country.

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@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
I, however, am not interested in casting a vote to shake up anyone. I am interested in casting a vote to get someone other than a Republican into the White House...for the good of the nation and the world in general.

That makes no sense to me unless you plan to be dead in 5 years or so, and dont care about what happens to everyone else. Almost anything a president can do can be overturned, either by the courts or congress or a follow on president, getting the system to work is far more important than your goal. You sound like a corporate CEO that only cares what the books will look like in the next 5 quarters, a person who gives not a fig about the health of the country.

I care about preventing the Republicans from winning the next presidential election, Hawk.

IF that makes no sense to you...there is nothing I can do about it.

But I do care about preventing the Republicans from winning the Oval Office, because I care very much about what happens to everyone.

2 Replies

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

touche

Also sorry you feel that way, Ossobuco. Please consider my reply to Snood to be a reply to your concerns also.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

But I do care about preventing the Republicans from winning the Oval Office, because I care very much about what happens to everyone.

And look at where a few decades of that kind of thinking has gotten us.

If what you are doing is not working then do something else, anything else.

You are being manipulated, you get told " do this or else!" this version being "vote for us or else!" and being the chump that you are you fall for it. You never make a stand for what is right, for what is actually in yours and everyone elses best interests. The elite own both parties and they both say " vote for us or else!", the only sure result if we do is that you and the nation lose. It is time to change that, past time.

WAKE UP!

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@hawkeye10,

Actually the more I think about it Trump is the only one who would possibly even try to put a good jurist on the SCOTUS bench, the health of the court is an argument to vote Trump. Possibly Sanders, but I have no reason to think that this guy can tell who the quality people are. The fact that he has lived such a long life in politics with a solid record of futility argues not.

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@Frank Apisa,

This is why we can't have nice candidates.

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@Frank Apisa,

So Frank, If you are completely sure that Bernie won't win the general election... and you are completely sure that Bernie won't win the primary election, then what's the big fuss about?

(Personally I think you are wrong on both counts... but it sounds like you would be OK with it if that happens to be the case).

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@maxdancona,

Nice question, Max.

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In a way this comes down to me to a matter of politician vs. true believers of whatever sort.

I think Hillary is a well bred politician, and as I've said at least a dozen times, I will vote for her as the nominee if she is that, especially since she has been twisting a tad more left/populist lately.

Sanders says everything I think (I'll need to review that as I always tend to disagree with anyone. Reminds me of an early blind date I had where the guy told me that he routinely tended to disagree. I disagreed that I would go sky diving...).

I think Obama is mix of those. I still like him. I tend to disagree on a fair amount of stuff, but overall appreciate him.

I'm chary re how Sanders will do, how he could govern this U.S. mess. Obama has governed in a morass, tough to do but succeeding, so there is hope.

Aside from time zones, I think what matters is where is the present electorate.
All the sturm und drang of past decades is a blur to new voters. They will be, in large part, learning from social media.

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Why huge Los Angeles crowd turned out for Bernie Sanders

http://www.trbimg.com/img-55c98a65/turbine/la-2435477-me-0810-bernie-mwy-0174-jpg-20150810/900/900x506

Marilynn Manderscheid is a retired elementary school teacher who drove from Orange County to hear Sanders speak Monday night. She said that despite polls that show Sanders trailing Clinton, she believes he's a serious challenger.

"I remember when John F. Kennedy won when everyone said a Catholic couldn't possibly be elected. I walked precincts for Barack Obama when people said a mixed-race man could not win but he did," Manderscheid said. "So, yes, I think Bernie — if he sticks to his message — will have a strong chance at winning the primary."

Ledbetter, the 17-year-old, said she thought Sanders was taking the right approach to women's rights issues and income inequality.

"He's the first candidate I've really felt a resonance with," added Ledbetter, who said she had followed politics since she was 10.

Streety, of Orange County, said she had been discouraged by politics and had stopped voting. She didn't cast a ballot during the last presidential election.

"I was politically stagnant," she said. "I felt like my vote didn't count."

But she said Sanders had resurrected her faith in elections. She was also moved by the young faces in the crowd.

"These kids are elated. I can feel it," Streety said. "These kids are going to vote."

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-sanders-california-20150811-story.html#page=1
(Lots more good photos of the event in the article also)

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@snood,

Quote:

People were this cocksure that Barack Hussein Obama had a snowball's chance also.

Obama was within 10 points of Hillary in August of 2007. Hillary had less than 40%.

That is just a bit different than a 30 point margin with Hillary over 50%.

1 Reply

@parados,

parados wrote:

Quote:

People were this cocksure that Barack Hussein Obama had a snowball's chance also.

Obama was within 10 points of Hillary in August of 2007. Hillary had less than 40%.

That is just a bit different than a 30 point margin with Hillary over 50%.

Yes you're right - in this same time frame during 2007. My point still stands though about how people's perceptions about possibilities can shift.

1 Reply

The main reason Hillary has held a lead is because, in my opinion, people are frightened to death they will lose the election. I think they are more likely to lose with her than Bernie.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Quote:
But I do care about preventing the Republicans from winning the Oval Office, because I care very much about what happens to everyone.

And look at where a few decades of that kind of thinking has gotten us.

If what you are doing is not working then do something else, anything else.

You are being manipulated, you get told " do this or else!" this version being "vote for us or else!" and being the chump that you are you fall for it. You never make a stand for what is right, for what is actually in yours and everyone elses best interests. The elite own both parties and they both say " vote for us or else!", the only sure result if we do is that you and the nation lose. It is time to change that, past time.

WAKE UP!

I don't get manipulated, Hawk.

And I am awake.

You ought to give it a shot.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

So Frank, If you are completely sure that Bernie won't win the general election... and you are completely sure that Bernie won't win the primary election, then what's the big fuss about?

(Personally I think you are wrong on both counts... but it sounds like you would be OK with it if that happens to be the case).

No big fuss, Max.

I keep seeing posts exhorting people to support Sanders for president...I think it would be a horrible idea for the Dem's to do that...

...and I am sharing those thoughts.

0 Replies

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