Bernie's In

Do you know, Ed?

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@edgarblythe,

That's what drives me NUTS about political campaigns. Hillary Clinton is the most adept at it. She intones these platitudes, "We need to stop ..." "That is why I am for the ..." She fills speeches with nothing but lip service, won't share specific plans.

Her #blacklivesmatter history is enraging. She refused to say BLM. Then, she refuses to go to Netroots because that's a progressives bastion, and she is a corporate Dem who would have likely been heckled out of there. This year, the BLM movement was not going to be side-stepped, and they take over the meeting. Both attendees tried to speak but weren't allowed to. All of this is ok with me, understandable... UNTIL Hillary, after this, takes a mic somewhere in a safe, pre-vetted crowd and says, "This is what I would have said to the BLM activists..."

We know what she would have said. She said it. And not in the middle of a loud, unforgiving demonstration.

Yet, there will be some knuckleheads who will swear she would've handled it better.

smh

1 Reply

@snood,

Seems to me to be a police cultural problem. I don't mean, I don't think, that it is system-wide, though it may be close to that, but I do think there are wide blotches on behavior in many stations that lands, when it does, mostly on blacks.

I'm not anti police. I have, within the last year, recommended a non fiction book I read and liked, by Edward Conlon, who had been with the NYPD for quite a while. It wasn't about police misbehavior as such, more a sort of autobiography of his time in the force. Anyway, I enjoyed the book and his writing ability.

I am anti what is going on with precipitously easy-and-often shooting of blacks.
Plus all the beating up that happens. I completely get the black lives matter effort. I don't know the data re latino shootings that seem awry, though I think I remember several, and that they too are not immune from this stuff. It's a big problem, re justice for all. Everybody in the U.S. needs to care about this. Justice, equal justice, matters.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Here's an explanation.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/7-things-people-who-say-theyre-fiscally-conservative-socially-liberal-dont

Numbers 1, 2, 6, and 7 presume that leftwing economic viewpoints are true (i.e. that conservative economic policies are harmful to the poor).

But someone could legitimately be of the opinion that conservative economic policies help the poor, for instance by providing them with more job opportunities in a thriving economy.

Numbers 3, 4, and 5 didn't seem related to conservative economic policies that I could see. I did see lots of factual problems with those three, but none of the factual problems had any bearing on fiscal conservatism.

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It takes public awareness of the kind that moves people to make momentous changes. It takes a voice people will listen to, as they listened to MLK give his I Have a Dream speech, to make it a movement, as the politicians passed the 1964 civil rights act. Right now, everyone gives only voice support. There is no clear movement pushing for reform, in a way that mobilizes public opinion. Officials decry the violence, but do nothing. Those who protest for change have no champions where it counts. It may be that Obama feels it would stoke a backlash if he did more. I don't know his mind. I sort of think a white person should lead the way, because black leaders get marginalized and ignored, these days. You can't expect help from mainstream media, because they are being restrained from being honest as reporters nowadays. As it stands now, I think Bernie would help a lot more than the other presidential contenders.

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@snood,

Quote:

I honestly don't know what a president CAN do to root out the institutional racism that festers and is passed on in our police societies.

President Obama is president of all the people; if he were to visibly take on the obvious structural racism within America he would be seen as one-sided and for the blacks alone. In his own way, he has tried to straddled both divides. Being the first president of color, Barack and Michelle have had the vilest racist chants sent their way. During his first State of the Union, a barbarous redneck yelled out at the president "you lie!" When he sang "Amazing Grace" at one of the nine murdered African Americans killed by the racist Roof, he touched so many African American hearts and he let Black America know they were not alone, not for one moment, that he too felt the pain they were experiencing.

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@snood,

snood wrote:

So who knows what would have to happen to wake people up enough to somehow subtract some of the violence happening to blacks at the hand of police?

Generally when a police officer is shown to have engaged in improper force, action is taken against them.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Her #blacklivesmatter history is enraging. She refused to say BLM.

Why in the world would that be enraging? She said all lives matter.

Don't non-black lives matter?

1 Reply

@oralloy,

oralloy wrote:

Lash wrote:
Her #blacklivesmatter history is enraging. She refused to say BLM.

Why in the world would that be enraging? She said all lives matter.

Don't non-black lives matter?

Exactly, Clinton for once did the right thing here. Just goes to show how white hating the whites of the D party are. The new fad is for whites to go around demeaning other whites for not raving about "white privilege", and telling every white who does not instantly agree that they are the chosen race, chosen by a racist system, that they are hopelessly corrupted by a racist system. There will be no debate of the facts. There will be no consideration of the self hating whites being wrong.

" I was born white so I suck, along with all other whites who have ever lived".

Jesus ******* christ, get these idiots a bong. They have some serious issues, and need to chill out. They are as annoying as ****. Stupidity always bothers me.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

I am anti what is going on with precipitously easy-and-often shooting of blacks.

That's a consequence of the Rodney King incident.

Four police officers had their careers ended (and two were sent to prison) when they tried to use non-lethal force to defend themselves from someone who repeatedly violently attacked them.

Can't blame the police for wanting to skip over the non-lethal steps these days.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

Can't blame the police for wanting to skip over the non-lethal steps these days.

Nor can you blame cops for taking another look at their idea that they were called to put their lives on the line and then be demeaned and increasingly abused for doing so, both by the people and their bosses.

This is going to be a huge ******* problem. We could be back to the high crime rates of the 70's and 80's in two years easily. As per usual we find Americans incapable of evaluation, incapable of looking out for their own best interests.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

hawkeye10 wrote:

Nor can you blame cops for taking another look at their idea that they were called to put their lives on the line and then be demeaned and increasingly abused for doing so, both by the people and their bosses.

This is going to be a huge ******* problem. We could be back to the high crime rates of the 70's and 80's in two years easily. As per usual we find Americans incapable of evaluation, incapable of looking out for their own best interests.

Yes. I forget when, probably about a month ago, but I heard a brief thing on the news about Baltimore, where the mayor fired the police chief because the police were no longer bothering to enforce the law in the city.

I presume that she means to replace the chief with someone who will punish low-level officers for not bothering to enforce the law.

I expect that many Baltimore officers are looking for jobs in other cities, and that Baltimore will soon have a severely understaffed police force.

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@hawkeye10,

Hawk and oral.

Have you ever had a relative who always had every problem you ever had, and their experience was always worse than yours? I do.

So, after years of listening to this bullshit from your self-absorbed relative, your beloved wife dies of cancer. You are inconsolable. You've suffered with her through it, she's suffered horribly, and finally died.

You tell the relative and you KNOW what's going to happen. You stand there in front of Aunt Agnes and you say, "My beloved has died."

Aunt Agnes begins to tell you how she's suffered with bursitis for decades.

And you finally scream at the top of your lungs, "I don't give a **** about you or your ******* bursitis. This is about what happened to ME and my beloved, and **** you."

And, if you did, I wouldn't blame you. I'd have your back.

People pass each other on the same street in every town in this country, but some of them are actually living on different planets. If you can't or won't cop to that, further conversation will be a waste for us.

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@Lash,

Quote:

but some of them are actually living on different planets.

Often by choice. I cant fix that. I also cant fix that others dont consider my opinion on race relevant because I am white. I am old school, I demand equality. That includes the right to have an opinion, that includes that my feelings matter as much as a brown person's feelings matter.

And if you cant talk to me because I demand equality then **** you, I am right, I have the right to demand equality, this is America God Damn IT.

1 Reply

@ossobuco,

I agree with your conclusion. Death in custody and abuse by cop are universal American problems. More whites and Hispanics die either in custody or during initial contact with cops than blacks, but when you factor in %s, these things happen more often to blacks. (Hope I said that right.)

I think there is an issue with
1.) the types of people attracted to police-work
2.) cop training and oversight
3.) the cover-my-buddy (extension of military bunker mentality, maybe?) ethos that permeates law enforcement.
4.) ungodly stress of having your life on the line every time you put on the uniform
5.) perceptions, incorrect or correct, of low-income neighborhoods and their connection with blacks.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Hawk and oral.

Have you ever had a relative who always had every problem you ever had, and their experience was always worse than yours? I do.

So, after years of listening to this bullshit from your self-absorbed relative, your beloved wife dies of cancer. You are inconsolable. You've suffered with her through it, she's suffered horribly, and finally died.

You tell the relative and you KNOW what's going to happen. You stand there in front of Aunt Agnes and you say, "My beloved has died."

Aunt Agnes begins to tell you how she's suffered with bursitis for decades.

And you finally scream at the top of your lungs, "I don't give a **** about you or your ******* bursitis. This is about what happened to ME and my beloved, and **** you."

And, if you did, I wouldn't blame you. I'd have your back.

People pass each other on the same street in every town in this country, but some of them are actually living on different planets. If you can't or won't cop to that, further conversation will be a waste for us.

I've never had a relative like that.

I guess I can see that some people are actually living on different planets. But I also think that facts are important. I reject the notion that there are multiple truths. I can however see the merits of arguing over what the truth actually is.

I'm not entirely sure that I understand your post. However, I do think it is wise to simply agree to disagree rather than to fight bitterly when agreement proves elusive.

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@hawkeye10,

Quote:

And if you cant talk to me because I demand equality then **** you, I am right, I have the right to demand equality, this is America God Damn IT.

I'd love to talk to you or anyone else who demands equality. My favorite people.

Just shoot me your email address and I'll forward it to Black Lives Matter activists. They could definitely use every available person advocating for equality to help out.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

However, I do think it is wise to simply agree to disagree rather than to fight bitterly when agreement proves elusive.

It is also wise to refuse the demand of the one who tells the best victim story, the demand being that they get to decide what the group does, their demand that I must either conform to their will or shut up.

Will not happen. I am an American. People died so that I might be a free man and I am going to be a free man.

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@Lash,

Lash wrote:

Quote:
And if you cant talk to me because I demand equality then **** you, I am right, I have the right to demand equality, this is America God Damn IT.

I'd love to talk to you or anyone else who demands equality. My favorite people.

Just shoot me your email address and I'll forward it to Black Lives Matter activists. They could definitely use every available person advocating for equality to help out.

I dont support racist projects. If anyone starts an "all lives matter" campaign I will consider signing up.

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@oralloy,

Oralloy, I'm sure you understand. The analogy was very simplistic, not tricky at all. I mean, I really do have a relative like that. You're so lucky you don't.

I appreciate you explaining your opinion. I see the merit of discussing related opinions, too. This is a hot topic, but I'm really working on more dispassionate interaction - I'm just really having to exert some self-control in many cases.

Anyway, thanks.

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