parados
 
  5  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 09:49 am
@Olivier5,
The points you are making are bullshit. I understand that quite well.

If you had said you don't have enough information to tell how Silver came to his conclusions then I would have no beef with you. You however decided to make claims about his methods without knowing what methods he used. OMG, "he used a Gaussian distribution", except you can't seem to point to the specific data where he used that. Hmmm.... Now you are pretending I just must not understand statistics.

Quote:
Believe that only the rich support Trump, if you need to believe that...
If that is the conclusion you reached from Silver's stats then it isn't me that has a problem with statistics, it clearly is you. Silver never states that. His only statement is that the majority Trump voters don't skew toward the lower end of the income scale when compared to the other candidates voters which is a valid conclusion.
Olivier5
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 09:53 am
@parados,
Even if you had the competence, you would need to LISTEN to what I actually say in order to understand it. It's evidently beyond you.
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 09:53 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:


Bill Moyers
1 hr ·
Clinton shifts back toward center –> Amy Chozick at The New York Times: “Mrs. Clinton’s campaign is repositioning itself, after a year of emphasizing liberal positions and focusing largely on minority voters, to also appeal to independent and Republican-leaning white voters turned off by Mr. Trump… The effort is a striking turn after she spent the past year trying to to mobilize the liberal wing and labor leaders in the Democratic Party.”
And: Clinton’s shift assumes that Sanders voters, faced with a choice between voting Democratic and voting for Trump, eventually will come
around to supporting her. But exit polling highlighted by Margaret Talev and Arit John at Bloomberg Politics indicates that regardless of their race or ideology, Clinton remains a tough sell among young Sanders voters.

Clinton’s people are seeking out Jeb Bush’s donors, according to a Young Turks video. You would have to be totally blind not to see she is a corporate shill.
Olivier5
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 10:21 am
@natturner,
natturner wrote:

Is anyone watching all these videos being posted?

No. It doesn't stop anyone from thumbing them down though...
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  4  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 10:58 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote edgar:
Quote:
Clinton’s people are seeking out Jeb Bush’s donors, according to a Young Turks video. You would have to be totally blind not to see she is a corporate shill.


Trump said more than once that he would let our NATO allies develop their own nuclear weapons and fend for themselves against anyone invading-the US can't afford to help them defend themselves like we used to. Since getting rid of NATO is THE primary goal of Russia, which would love to expand back into the Eastern European countries it once controlled, this is bad news for American and European security and is likely to repel many conservatives and conservative donors. As well as our other allies like South Korea and Japan.

If Trump wants to come up with a suicidal national security policy and drive conservative donors away to Hillary, Hillary would have to be nuts not to target them. More money means more TV ads, which leads to victory in key states.

A strong NATO policy has ALWAYS been the policy of the Clintons as well as the Democratic Party, so Hillary isn't changing anything. Now, do you have any specifics where Hillary is changing anything in her policies because of this, or are you holding it against her that she is maintaining the same support for a strong national and allied defense that she has always had?

If the conservatives are so put off by Trump that they want to donate to Hillary, why shouldn't she take the money? This is the real world. And Russia is a real expansionist power.

revelette2
 
  4  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 11:46 am
@Blickers,
Now Trump said it is okay to default on the debt because we can just make more money.

Trump: U.S. will never default 'because you print the money'

Quote:
He also repeated his claim that he is "the king of debt."
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 12:03 pm
@revelette2,
Not to contradict, but what Trump is saying there is that it is better to "print the money", (the conservatives' term for raising the debt ceiling), than default on the national debt payments, which would be disastrous. Believe it or not, that statement is not so bad. A couple of years ago, conservatives were saying that unless there were cutbacks in government services, they would not vote to raise the debt ceiling and the US would default on its debt payment. They were actually saying this would not be so bad. In fact, it would wreck America's financial position, which is based on being the steady alternative that always makes the debt payment on time.

Hard as it is to believe, the Trump Circus actually came out with a position more moderate than the Tea Partiers have on this issue.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 12:28 pm
@revelette2,
that was sadly funny to watch

he actually seems to think he can ask for an extra $20 or $20,000,000 to be printed if it's needed

someone left the details out of his briefing notes
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 12:35 pm
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
what Trump is saying there is that it is better to "print the money", (the conservatives' term for raising the debt ceiling)


someone's probably busy trying to figure out how to tell Mr. Trump that printing the money is a political term not a literal one

0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 12:56 pm
@Blickers,
The article makes it somewhat confusing, at least it to me. I just wonder why he thinks it is a good thing to be king of debt.
0 Replies
 
revelette2
 
  2  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 12:59 pm
Study: Sanders' economic plan piles $18T on federal debt

May. 9, 2016 1:02 PM ET


Quote:
WASHINGTON (AP) — Sen. Bernie Sanders' tax and spending proposals would provide new levels of health and education benefits for American families, but they'd also blow an $18-trillion hole in federal deficits, piling on so much debt they would damage the economy.

That sobering assessment comes from a joint analysis released Monday by the nonpartisan Urban-Brookings Tax Policy Center and the Urban Institute Health Policy Center, well-known Washington think tanks.

The bottom line: Sanders would raise taxes by more than $15 trillion over 10 years, with most of that paid by upper-income earners. But his proposed government-run health care system, along with free undergraduate college, enhanced Social Security, family and medical leave, and other new programs, would spend far more, adding $18 trillion to federal debt over a decade.

"The dramatic increase in government borrowing would crowd out private investment, raise interest rates, further increase government borrowing costs and retard economic growth," the analysis concluded.

0 Replies
 
parados
 
  4  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 01:01 pm
@Olivier5,
You mean when you say things like this?

Quote:
Yes, exit polls get you a good sample but asking people how much they make is fishy, averaging intervals is VERY fishy, and comparing the result with a "real" income average for the state is downright ridiculous.


Please provide your evidence that Silver averaged intervals. Obviously what is beyond me is how you can pull things out of your ass and then believe them to be true. You do not know the methodology that Silver used.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 01:08 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

edgarblythe wrote:


Bill Moyers
1 hr ·
Clinton shifts back toward center –> Amy Chozick at The New York Times: “Mrs. Clinton’s campaign is repositioning itself, after a year of emphasizing liberal positions and focusing largely on minority voters, to also appeal to independent and Republican-leaning white voters turned off by Mr. Trump… The effort is a striking turn after she spent the past year trying to to mobilize the liberal wing and labor leaders in the Democratic Party.”
And: Clinton’s shift assumes that Sanders voters, faced with a choice
between voting Democratic and voting for Trump, eventually will come
around to supporting her. But exit polling highlighted by Margaret Talev and Arit John at Bloomberg Politics indicates that regardless of their race or ideology, Clinton remains a tough sell among young Sanders voters.

Clinton’s people are seeking out Jeb Bush’s donors, according to a Young Turks video. You would have to be totally blind not to see she is a corporate shill.

The head of the Democratic Convention is already preparing for a boisterous Sanders crowd. He is pretty much telling them to be quiet and not make a scene. Which is like dangling a Pupperoni snack in the face of a starving Mastiff. The wide eyed unrealistic Bernie bros and the women who follow just to meet men, who stupidly want universal health care, Glass Steagal restored, etc., are not going quietly, I will almost guarantee.
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 05:53 pm
@edgarblythe,
I think you may find value in this short video.

edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 06:32 pm
@reasoning logic,
I don't have to be convinced. I know pretty much what has to be done.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 06:39 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
I don't have to be convinced. I know pretty much what has to be done.


I am not trying to convince anyone, I personally think we are doomed and that is coming from a person who strives to be optimistic.
0 Replies
 
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 06:46 pm
People have been saying we are doomed since I've been old enough to understand people talking. Know why? Because you'll get more people to listen to you than if you say that things aren't so bad.
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 06:49 pm
@Blickers,
Quote:
People have been saying we are doomed since I've been old enough to understand people talking. Fact is, the world is in better shape than it's ever been


I have studied and learned the same thing but how can we be sure that we have not reached the peak and now we are in a free fall to hell?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 06:51 pm
The instructive point here, though, is not that Clinton would profess to share the values of Republican donors in order to garner their support. Rather, it is that she really does share their values.

In other words, it was Clinton's attempt to attract the support of the younger, more progressive wing of the Democratic base that represented a diversion from her natural position on the political spectrum. Now that she has a substantial lead over her opponent, she is returning home, politically speaking, and attempting to reap the rewards.

On various issues, as many commentators have observed, Clinton is well to the right of much of the mainstream Democratic Party — which is, itself, far to the right of the Democratic tradition represented by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

Over the years has lobbied for the Trans-Pacific Partnership, helped sell fracking to the world, advocated welfare reform, spoken out in favor of her husband's crime bill, and raised funds from the same sources tapped by conservative Republicans.

And whenever Bernie Sanders raises the latter issue, Clinton is quick to accuse him of smear tactics. She forgets that her fundraising record speaks for itself.

Clinton is also a veritable hawk who seems, as Kevin Drum has observed, to not have learned anything from America's most recent interventions in the Middle East, from Iraq to Libya. It comes as no surprise, then, that she shamelessly touts the support of Henry Kissinger, Jack Keane, and other figures in America's interventionist foreign policy establishment.

She embodies what scholars like Thomas Ferguson and public figures like Ralph Nader have warned of for years: The right turn of the Democratic Party.

Nader once remarked that the "only difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush is the velocity with which their knees hit the floor when corporations knock." And this was long before the Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling, which completed the corporate takeover of both political parties.

Now, while political divisions appear, on the surface, to be peaking, both parties are remarkably similar on the most consequential issues, from aggression in the realm of foreign policy to neoliberalism in the realm of economics.

The so-called New Democrats, who rose to prominence during the presidency of Bill Clinton, are no longer new. They are the standard-bearers of a party that has capitulated to the Republican agenda on welfare, taxes, trade, and Wall Street deregulation.

In reaching out to Republican donors and appealing to their common ideological core, the campaign of Hillary Clinton is doing out in the open what Democrats have been doing behind closed doors for years.

"Democrats," argues T.A. Frank in Vanity Fair, "are becoming the party of the 1 percent."

With the rise of Hillary Clinton, "are becoming" will soon make the transition to "have become." Clinton's flippant dismissal of those who question her commitment to the causes championed by Bernie Sanders — specifically, substantial reform of both Wall Street and the campaign finance system — is compelling evidence for this conclusion. But more telling is the fact that the Democratic Party has fallen in line, deploying the feeble justification that Clinton, despite her startling flaws, will "get things done."

But as we have seen, "getting things done" more often than not means favoring an agenda that places the interests of major corporations above those of working people, war over peace, and environmental destruction over environmental justice.

"The problem with Hillary Clinton," observes Naomi Klein, "isn't just her corporate cash. It's her corporate worldview."

The same can be said of her allies in the Democratic Party, who long ago abandoned any pretense of representing working Americans.

Why else would the patrons of ultra-conservatism, when faced with the prospect of a disruptive Trump presidency, find it so easy to shift their allegiances to the party next door?
http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/05/09/clinton-campaign-republican-donors-hillary-shares-your-values
reasoning logic
 
  1  
Reply Mon 9 May, 2016 06:57 pm
@edgarblythe,
Very true
0 Replies
 
 

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