Bernie's In

@maxdancona,

At the time, Clinton still had a chance of winning the election. Sanders has NEVER been as close at Clinton was versus Obama. Not. Even. In. The. Ballpark.

And I very much remember Obama supporters being assholes. In many ways 2008 was way worse. The race was closer though, so that's a tad more forgivable. This Clinton/Sanders stuff has never been close.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Would you like to give an example MaPorsche? I can give you plenty of examples of Clinton supporters trying to blow up the party because their candidate lost.

Quote:

The Democrats are throwing the election away. For what? An inadaquate Black male who would not have been running had it not been a White woman that was running for president

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@maxdancona,

No, I'm not going to waste my time. It won't change your mind and the 1 (or 2 or 20) examples that we could find on YouTube wouldn't be proof of anything.

The fact is that Obama won by huge numbers in November and the vast vast majority of Clinton supporters voted for him in November.

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@maporsche,

The PUMAs (Party unity my ass) was an organized group of disgruntled Hillary Clinton supporters in 2008. A big chunk of them publicly went on to support McCain in the general election.

You don't see anything like that here.

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@maxdancona,

Dunno where you dug that video up, but as a Hillary supporter in 2008 I did not hear any of those sentiments being voiced. I do admit thinking that Hillary should get it in 2008 and have Obama wait until 2016 because the younger generation doesn't care that much about race, while in 2008 there were still a lot of people raised to be racist, raised to think that was normal. I figured that by 2016, there would be fewer of those.

I was wrong on that. Also, both my WWII generation parents voted for Obama, so maybe the theory wasn't that good to begin with.

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Most likely, you think it's worse now than in 2008 because your candidate is losing.

And I think 2008 was worse because my candidate was losing.

In reality, it was probably the same, although I think social media makes all of this more and more insufferable every cycle

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@maxdancona,

I follow politics relatively closely and this is the first I've heard of the PUMA. So they couldn't have been that prominent.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

You don't see anything like that here.

A) #bernieorbust (look it up if you don't know what that means)
B) wait until the summer to see what happens

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

At this time in 2008, Hillary Clinton was still swinging away about Reverned Wright (of "God Damn America" fame) and ironically claiming that Obama was too anti-gun.

I don't remember Obama supporters at the time (who were on the winning side) being such assholes.

Do you?

non-sequitur. You call this being an asshole? Sounds like a personal problem to me. Enjoy the Bern.

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@snood,

By the way, although the PUMAs made a lot of disgruntled noises before the 2008 Convention, they lined up for Obama for the most part when it came down to it.
I see the Bernie bots as holding much tighter to their grudges. We'll see.

1 Reply

@snood,

I am proud of what Bernie has accomplished.

I am proud of his stand on social justice. I am proud of him pushing for single payer health care. I am proud of him calling for fairness in the Middle East (who is the last national candidate who has had the courage to do that)? And I am proud of the way he has run the campaign.

Bernie's movement represents a core part of the Democratic party (as much as the Democratic establishment including the Clinton campaign want to deny this).

So I am happy that I supported Bernie.

I hope you are happy Snood.

When Hillary sells out the BLM movement. When she sends troops into more countries. When she gives one-sided support to Israel to avoid peace. When she puts band aids on Obamacare instead of addressing the real problems with healthcare. I will be pushing for the next Bernie Sanders to challenge the same old Democratic establishment that keeps doing the same thing.

There is a chance that Hillary Clinton will be a decent president. But I worry that the stands she has taken, and the repeated pattern of taking political expedience over progressive principle. But I am worried about what a second Clinton presidency will mean.

I still have to vote for her, don't I. But she could do a lot to make it easier for me to accept that she understands our concerns too.

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@snood,

You are ignoring the fact that the ball is in Hillary Clinton's court. She is the leader. She has the power. She has the responsibility.

Obama did a very good job at pulling in Hillary supporters. It is Obama who unified the party. Hillary did get a very nice post in his cabinet out of it.

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@maxdancona,

It's interesting to see where they are today. A lot of the hardcore PUMA's are Trump fans today. Some of the leaders are still Clinton fans but very luke warm about it.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I am proud of what Bernie has accomplished.

I am proud of his stand on social justice. I am proud of him pushing for single payer health care. I am proud of him calling for fairness in the Middle East (who is the last national candidate who has had the courage to do that)? And I am proud of the way he has run the campaign.

Bernie's movement represents a core part of the Democratic party (as much as the Democratic establishment including the Clinton campaign want to deny this).

So I am happy that I supported Bernie.

I hope you are happy Snood.

When Hillary sells out the BLM movement. When she sends troops into more countries. When she gives one-sided support to Israel to avoid peace. When she puts band aids on Obamacare instead of addressing the real problems with healthcare. I will be pushing for the next Bernie Sanders to challenge the same old Democratic establishment that keeps doing the same thing.

There is a chance that Hillary Clinton will be a decent president. But I worry that the stands she has taken, and the repeated pattern of taking political expedience over progressive principle. But I am worried about what a second Clinton presidency will mean.

I still have to vote for her, don't I. But she could do a lot to make it easier for me to accept that she understands our concerns too.

That's rich. Hillary now has an obligation to help the Bernie bots accept that she understands their concerns. NOT! Like, that would make any of you give her the benefit of the doubt. What's more likely is that any conciliatory gestures she makes (and she will make them - she's no fool) will be poo-pooed by Bernie bots as just another Hillary lie.

No, she doesn't have any obligation to kiss Bernie bots asses. They have an obligation to keep Trump and Cruz out of the White House. That's the raw truth of this situation. Like it or lump it.

1 Reply

@snood,

Quote:

No, he doesn't have any obligation to kiss Hillary bots asses. They have an obligation to keep Trump and Cruz out of the White House. That's the raw truth of this situation. Like it or lump it.

Really, if Bernie were winning now... would this be a good tactic to get you to support him?

Attacking voters and telling them they have an "obligation" to vote for you anyway is not generally considered a good way to win elections.

Obama didn't do this. He listened to people, both in the party and out, and he worked to answer their concerns. And he asked for our votes and he asked for the votes of Clinton supporters.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

He listened to people, both in the party and out, and he worked to answer their concerns. And he asked for our votes and he asked for the votes of Clinton supporters.

Which Clinton most decidedly IS doing, and you keep refusing to acknowledge it.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Quote Max:

Quote:

When Hillary sells out the BLM movement.

The BLM can really help themselves if they'd stop distorting Bill's record when he was in office. In Bill's two terms, Full Time employment increased 16% for all races total but it increased almost twice as much, 30%, for blacks. Local welfare offices were closing due to lack of applicants. BLM doesn't get around to mentioning that, as it also neglects to mention that the rising tide of black murder victims occurring under Bill Clinton's predecessor was not only stopped, but cut by 30% when Bill Clinton was in office.

Quote:

But I am worried about what a second Clinton presidency will mean.

Bill and Hillary are on the same page, and this country was doing just fine under the first Clinton presidency, so I am eagerly looking forward to the second one.

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@Blickers,

Well... we disagree on pretty much all of that.

I suppose that is the point.

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@maporsche,

Obama's efforts in 2008 to reach out to Clinton supporters were accepted by Clinton supporters (for the most part) because of Obama.

It was Obama's responsibility to win them over and history shows that he did just that. The presumptive party nominee is the one who holds all of the cards. Once you get a lock on the nomination... you don't get to play victim any more.

She is the leader now. She needs to start taking responsibility. If she starts blaming other people for her failures (as you seem to be doing) then it's on her.

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@maxdancona,

I'M blaming other people for her failures?

You've lost me. I no longer can understand what you're talking about.

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