oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:03 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
I am also curious... and this question is for all Hillary supporters. Do you really want to continue Obama's performance?

I'm a Kasich supporter, can I answer?

I certainly don't like Mr. Obama's blind hatred of our Constitution and civil rights, but I think he did quite good on many other policy issues.


maxdancona wrote:
I am disappointed by Obama, and I voted for him in the both primaries and both general elections. Of course there are several things that I praise him for, DACA and DAPA for example, but there are many areas that I feel he fell short of his promise (in ways that the Republicans can't be blamed for). But he turned out to be quite moderate.

His moderation was clear back when he was running for office. The Left kept deluding themselves that he was a Leftist extremist, but those delusions were self-imposed. I remember making posts on a2k back in 2008 trying to tell Liberals that Mr. Obama was actually a reasonable moderate, and they refused to believe me.

His moderation is actually a good thing though. Extremism is bad.


maxdancona wrote:
I am very upset about Obama's abuse of the drone program.

There is no abuse of the drone program.

What could you possibly be upset about? He is protecting us from the terrorists. That's his job.


maxdancona wrote:
Obama's policy in Syria, particularly the "red line" that wasn't a red line was clearly flawed.

Seems pretty good to me. He has kept us out of the war as much as possible. As far as the chemical weapons go, he managed to have them removed from Syria and destroyed, and before things broke down enough that terrorists had a chance to seize control over them.

Would you rather tens of thousands of US soldiers were on the ground in Syria being attacked by every faction, all while Assad blamed the entire war on our invasion and half the world believed him?


maxdancona wrote:
But I feel like Obama could have done more to live up to the promise of his campaign.

He never promised to be anything more than a reasonable moderate.
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:30 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Any solution to fix our health care system has to deal with the fundamental issue at the core of the problem; the profit motive doesn't work in public health.

I agree that if you don't have to pay for a profit margin, the overall bill is lower.


maxdancona wrote:
1) The employer mandate is a ridiculous policy. There is no reason that employment should have anything to do with health care coverage. This was an accident of history... companies started giving health care to get around salary caps during WWII, and they stuck with them. There is no reason to keep a system based on having your employer be responsible for health insurance.

I actually predicted that the Obama Administration would scrap the employer mandate after the 2014 election. I haven't heard much about it since then though. Did they scrap it, start enforcing it, or is it still on pause waiting to be implemented?


maxdancona wrote:
2) A single payer system has been shown in country after country to be the best way to provide universal care and reduce cost.

Oh good grief. What is it about the term "single payer" that causes Liberals to switch off their brains?

Most of those countries don't even have a single payer system. How is the success of a NON single payer system supposed to reflect positively on the single payer model?


maxdancona wrote:
The truth is, Obamacare stopped being a reasonable long term policy the moment Obama dropped the public option (and he did so at the slightest political pressure). That isn't saying that pushing the public option back into the law will fix all the other ways we filled it with unworkable compromises.

The Public Option was not dropped. It was merely modified and given a different name. It is now what are known as "Multi State Plans".


maxdancona wrote:
We need a single payer system.

No we don't. That is only one possible way to achieve universal health care. There is no reason why that has to be the way we do it.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:31 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
The single pay system is the only one that can work. Obamacare will never get the job done without it.

How is it that Great Britain, Spain, most of Scandinavia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Germany, France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Japan, and Switzerland all manage to make things work without a single payer system?
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:41 am
@Blickers,
Blickers wrote:
Bernie is not strong on gun control, is she not allowed to point that out?

Clinton and Sanders hate the Second Amendment about equally. That is something that they should be ashamed of, not proud of.


Blickers wrote:
the Clintons do not allow themselves to get painted into a corner in international affairs.

They generally have reasonable foreign policies, but the notion that they are some sort of foreign policy superheroes is a bit silly.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:43 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Bernie correctly answered on how to break up banks and a few other topics, andvthe Daily Beast journalist flunked it. Expect an apology from them for misinforming the public.

Don't count on it. They still haven't apologized for all of their outrageous lies about Amanda Knox.

The Daily Beast is mostly just a tabloid. They have no journalistic integrity.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  0  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 05:49 am
@maporsche,
If she continues to spatter the blood of children on him for his reasonable gun control opinions, she will never be routed in a presidential election.
Blickers
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:45 am
@Lash,
It's amazing how much the conservatives pretending to be for Bernie want to stop Hillary from making her case.
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:49 am
@Blickers,
Does she really have a case? It seems to shift more than the wind.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:50 am
@oralloy,
why was oralloy thumbed down for giving his opinion?
Sturgis
 
  5  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:51 am
@ehBeth,
It seems that giving an opinion is frowned upon, especially in politics.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  4  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:53 am
@Lash,
So if I got this right here is what you're referring to:

1) In an interview with the Daily News editorial board after bringing up the Sandy Hook shootings, Sanders said "Do I think the victims of a crime with a gun should be able to sue the manufacturer, is that your question? No, I don't."

2) Clinton said: "That he would place gun manufacturers' rights and immunity from liability against the parents of the children killed at Sandy Hook is just unimaginable to me."


I don't exactly know what the problem here is. Clinton would like to see manufacturers held responsible. Sanders wouldn't.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 10:56 am
@ehBeth,
For the same reason people vote down lash's or Izzy's or BillRW or my opinions?

Personally, I prefer to ignore oralloy.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 11:02 am
@bobsal u1553115,
There's a difference between sharing an opinion and bashing other posters. I have no qualm with thumbing down the bashers (if they're not already on ignore).

I agree that ignoring is the better option and I've done that with two of the posters you mention (and a couple more in this thread - some pages are pretty nekkid to me).
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 11:02 am
GE's response to Bernie Sanders calling them out as being a morally bankrupt company.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/facts-matter-jeff-immelt

Quote:

By CEO of GE, Jeff Immelt

We at GE were interested to read comments Monday by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.), who told the New York Daily News editorial board that GE is among the companies that are supposedly “destroying the moral fabric” of America. The senator had been asked to cite examples of corporate greed at its worst. Somehow that got him to talking about us.

GE has been in business for 124 years, and we’ve never been a big hit with socialists. We create wealth and jobs, instead of just calling for them in speeches. We take risks, invest, innovate and produce in ways that today sustain 125,000 U.S. jobs. Our engineers innovate every day to build hardware and software solutions that meet real-world challenges. Our employees are proud of our company. I meet second- and third-generation employees whenever I travel across the country. I am one myself. Our suppliers and partners are proud of our company. Our communities are proud of our company. Our pride, history and hard work are real — the moral fabric of America.

The senator has never bothered to stop by our aviation plant in Rutland, Vt. We’ve been investing heavily (some $100 million in recent years), hiring and turning out some of the world’s finest jet-engine components in Vermont since the 1950s. The plant employs more than 1,000 people who are very good at what they do. It’s a picture of first-rate jobs with high wages, advanced manufacturing in a vital industry — how things look when American workers are competing and winning — and Vermont’s junior senator is always welcome to come by for a tour.

Elsewhere in Vermont, GE Healthcare employs more than 340 men and women in South Burlington. Yearly, GE does about $40 million worth of business with dozens of suppliers of parts and services across Vermont. Nationwide, we have 200 GE plants, including 15 that were built in the past five years — all with the aim of making GE the world’s premier industrial company.

Sanders says that he is upset about GE’s operations abroad — as though a company that has customers in more than 180 countries should have no presence in any of them. He never mentions that we are one of the United States’ prime exporters, annually selling in excess of $20 billion worth of American-made goods to the world. Nor does he mention that our sales around the world support our manufacturing base here at home, along with the thousands of U.S. companies in our supply chain. You want to cause big problems for our suppliers — many of whom are small and medium-size businesses — and their workers? The surest way would be to pull out of those countries and lose those customers.

We are competing globally with foreign companies whose governments care whether they win and support them in innumerable ways. U.S. companies continue to wrestle with an outdated and complex tax code that puts them at a distinct competitive disadvantage. Sanders has stated many times that GE pays no taxes. Repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. We pay billions in taxes, including federal, state and local taxes. The U.S. tax system has not been updated in 30 years and isn’t designed for today’s economy, which is why we support comprehensive tax reform — even if it raises our tax rate.

It’s easy to make hollow campaign promises and take cheap shots in speeches and during editorial board sessions, but U.S. companies have to deliver for their employees, customers and shareholders every day. GE operates in the real world. We’re in the business of building real things and generating real growth for a nation that needs it now more than ever. I’m proud of all that we do, and how it all figures into “the moral fabric” of America is so plain to me. It seems Sen. Sanders is missing the point.
Brand X
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 11:15 am
Bernie is a business major......ass.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:00 pm
@maporsche,
Does he realize that this is far more useful to Bernie than an endorsement would be?
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:07 pm
@maxdancona,
In what way?
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:22 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Does he realize that this is far more useful to Bernie than an endorsement would be?

Not to me it isn't. I was pretty positive on Sanders even though I think Clinton is the better candidate, but I think this editorial makes a real point. My company has several plants in the US. We also have several plants outside the US. Each of those plants contributes significantly to the local communities with local investment and philanthropy, hiring local workers and businesses. Sanders seeming ignorant of manufacturing going on in his state doesn't work as an endorsement for me.
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 12:59 pm
@maporsche,
The ability to sue someone for manufacturing a consumer item if someone uses it to hurt someone is stupid.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2016 01:03 pm
@Lash,
Lash wrote:

The ability to sue someone for manufacturing a consumer item if someone uses it to hurt someone is stupid.


Ok...but it IS a difference of opinion right? Was Hillary wrong in anything she said or wrong to call out how they differ on this issue? Did she lie somehow?

And you said "spatter the blood on him...", that's just funny and not an accurate representation of what she said.

Here's an article about her calling out this idea back in October. It may have happened earlier, but I wanted it to be clear that it didn't happen in the last 48 hours either.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/10/05/hillary-clinton-pushes-change-allowing-shooting-victims-sue-gun-makers-wake-oregon-attack/
0 Replies
 
 

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