roger
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 03:00 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

The answer to her problem is simple: sincerity. Just say what you sincerely think is best for the country. Just say sincerely why you think Sanders's ideas are wrong, and why you think so. No need to thow mud at anyone. Just say the truth as you see it.

But as we all know, Clinton has a sincerity deficit.


Yeah. Once she learns to fake sincerity, she's got it made.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 03:29 pm
@roger,
She's already lost the sincerity game. It'll be impossible to recover from it.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 03:32 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

But as we all know, Clinton has a sincerity deficit.


no. we don't all know that.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 05:49 pm
@ehBeth,
I have thought of Hillary Clinton as a manipulator for countless years, still stand on that. On the other hand, while I am unhappy with manipulation as a process, many in power in history made use of the tool., some to some good effect.

I don't have to like her to vote for her, given other considerations revolving around this U.S. election period, but if I do, I won't be smiling.
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 10:29 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
The answer to her problem is simple: sincerity.


Like Bernie telling everyone just what they want to hear. Like free collage for everyone, free hospital care, tax the 1%, get big money out of politics? Fairy tale, pie in the sky shyt that cant happen for another 10 to 20 years. Of the two, who is being honest right now today and who is lying his ass off?
snood
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 10:48 pm
@RABEL222,
Bernie promised in the last debate that he would decrease the number of people imprisoned in the US to the point that the US would no longer have the most imprisoned in the world. This is not just unlikely - this is an impossibility. More chicken in every pot, pie in the sky, peace on earth, good will toward men.

The U.S. imprisons about 2.2 million people, making the country the world’s biggest jailer by far. China, which comes in second, jails 1.7 million people.

It’s unclear how Sanders plans to empty American prisons by half a million people, since the president and federal government preside over only a fraction of the total prison population.

The only way Bernie can walk this back is to start saying he misspoke, or have his people start whining that he's being misinterpreted. What a whopper.

https://www.yahoo.com/politics/bernie-sanders-promises-to-free-half-a-million-033731722.html

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/opinion-blog/articles/2016-02-12/bernie-sanders-debates-with-pledge-he-cant-keep-on-criminal-justice-reform
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:10 pm
@RABEL222,
Let's respond to both Rabel and Snood at the same time.

1) Other countries, in fact most other developed countries, already provide free hospital care. Several countries provide free (or very cheap) college education. This is not a fairy tale.

2) There is no reason that our country HAS to jail so many people. There are two things we can do right away. One is to release people jailed for non-violent drug offenses. Two is to provide African American men the same opportunities for reduced sentences, parole or suspended sentences that White people get for the same crimes.

If we do these two things, that we should do anyway, we would drastically reduce our incarceration rate.


Why can't the US do logical things that other countries are doing? They work. They aren't risky. And they are the right thing to do anyway.

The fact that 1 in 4 Black men spend time in prison is intolerable. It is clearly injust and costly. Why are we even arguing about this?
Kolyo
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:15 pm
@maxdancona,
What about snood's point that most of those in prison have been put there by the states and not the federal government. Care to address that?

Would he just pardon people?
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:16 pm
@maxdancona,
I agree. It also affects black families in negative ways. The justice system in this country needs a complete make over to make justice equal for all.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:24 pm
@maxdancona,
From Ta-Nehisi Coates

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/10/the-black-family-in-the-age-of-mass-incarceration/403246/





snood
 
  4  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:25 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Let's respond to both Rabel and Snood at the same time.

1) Other countries, in fact most other developed countries, already provide free hospital care. Several countries provide free (or very cheap) college education. This is not a fairy tale.

2) There is no reason that our country HAS to jail so many people. There are two things we can do right away. One is to release people jailed for non-violent drug offenses. Two is to provide African American men the same opportunities for reduced sentences, parole or suspended sentences that White people get for the same crimes.

If we do these two things, that we should do anyway, we would drastically reduce our incarceration rate.


Why can't the US do logical things that other countries are doing? They work. They aren't risky. And they are the right thing to do anyway.

The fact that 1 in 4 Black men spend time in prison is intolerable. It is clearly injust and costly. Why are we even arguing about this?



I think you have reading comprehension problems, because you consistently address things that aren't in contention. No one is arguing here anything about unjust imprisonment of African Americans, or free college, or healthcare.

All my post was saying is that Bernie made a promise he can't possibly keep. It is just not possible. The US imprisons about 2.2 million people. China is second at 1.7 million. Bernie would have to release over a half million prisoners as president to fulfill his promise that by the end of his first term, the US would not be first in numbers of imprisoned.

0 Replies
 
Kolyo
 
  3  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:27 pm
@maxdancona,
No one is arguing mass incarceration is a good thing, but how would Bernie change the situation when most of the incarcerated are put there by the states?
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

I agree. It also affects black families in negative ways. The justice system in this country needs a complete make over to make justice equal for all.

Yeah, I think everyone (most everyone, anyway) agrees the justice system could use an overhaul. But that isn't even close to what was being discussed. I brought up a promise that Bernie pulled out of his ass that would be impossible to keep. I find it curious that some of you have trouble addressing THAT directly.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:29 pm
@Kolyo,
Kolyo wrote:

What about snood's point that most of those in prison have been put there by the states and not the federal government. Care to address that?

Would he just pardon people?


There are 2.3 million Americans in jail. One million of them are African Americans. This wastes lives, hurts families and continues a cycle of poverty for entire communities. If this is not a national issue that needs to be addressed from the highest level of government, what is?

I don't know what the president can do. I want a president who will do everything in his power, including the use of the bully pulpit, to change this in a radical way. Saying "there is nothing I can do so we will just ignore it" is not something I want from a political candidate. The Clinton's (including Hillary) went further, the pushed tough on crime bills that increased incarceration rates, especially in minority communities.

That is why I support Bernie Sanders. I don't know what he will be able to do. I do know that he will fight for these things.

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:44 pm
@RABEL222,
I somewhat doubt that Bernie wants free college across the Board, as this is no threat to Harvard.

It is about people who want to, grades up, to have access to universities.

As many probably know, I got to go to a major university since it was then free, that is, UCLA. Some short time later, Reagan cut that off.

As you can imagine, I strongly hope to see such universities again.

Surely we can nab a bit of the galumphing to the max military expenditure.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 12 Feb, 2016 11:47 pm
@RABEL222,
It's not free college for everyone, you simplistic person. It is to have free colleges available, presumably with rigor re admittance.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 12:20 am
https://berniesanders.com/issues/its-time-to-make-college-tuition-free-and-debt-free/

Quote:
MAKE TUITION FREE AT PUBLIC COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES.

This is not a radical idea. Last year, Germany eliminated tuition because they believed that charging students $1,300 per year was discouraging Germans from going to college. Next year, Chile will do the same. Finland, Norway, Sweden and many other countries around the world also offer free college to all of their citizens. If other countries can take this action, so can the United States of America.

In fact, it’s what many of our colleges and universities used to do. The University of California system offered free tuition at its schools until the 1980s. In 1965, average tuition at a four-year public university was just $243 and many of the best colleges – including the City University of New York – did not charge any tuition at all. The Sanders plan would make tuition free at public colleges and universities throughout the country.
roger
 
  2  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 12:51 am
@ehBeth,
Around here, $1,300 per year sounds about like free anyway.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 04:28 am
@snood,
Quote:
I brought up a promise that Bernie pulled out of his ass that would be impossible to keep. I find it curious that some of you have trouble addressing THAT directly.

I guess Bernie's supporters are of two kinds: Those who believe he will if elected fulfill each and every promise he made as candidate, and those who don't but trust that he will TRY, and that good things will come as a result. I belong to the latter category.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 13 Feb, 2016 07:11 am
@Olivier5,
And both of those categories of supporters seem to have at least one thing in common: Complete denial in the face of any evidence of Bernie's flaws.
 

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