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Politician caught in sex scandal!

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:05 pm
Sure could open up a plethora of issues for sure. It just goes to show that in the long run, the politics of personal destruction hurt a lot of people and ultimately benefit nobody.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:05 pm
Love Obama. He has plenty of smarts, street and otherwise. (Editor of Harvard Law Review.)

Joe, surely you know that the sex club thing wasn't about Jack doing other women but about him doing Jeri while other people watched. It wasn't enough for him to know that people knew he was doing her 'cause they're married, he wanted to, ya know, prove it. Or something.

Blech.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:07 pm
Clarification -- he tried to do Jeri in front of other people but she would have none of it.

Foxfyre, indeed.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:13 pm
Well Jeri strongly objected to having the divorce records unsealed. And the judge did it anyway. That was the issue. And according to some, a person's sex life, no matter how unsavory, has no bearing on his fitness for office, right?
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:20 pm
There are two possible motivations for this push to have Ryan's divorce papers revealed, neither of them laudable.

If it was driven by a smarmy political urge, that's deserving of disgust and rebuke.

But there's also the possibility that it was driven by the local paper's desire to sell copy through covering a 'sex' story involving a celebrity and/or a politician. There's a long history even in America of presses being put to such use (early New York city papers are a good example) though arguably the problem is rather worse in England.

Either way, we ought to speak out when we see it, even if we sound rather uptight or anti-free speech. Of course, it isn't a free speech issue, it's a citizenship issue.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:30 pm
Well I think so. I think how a person is currently conducting his/her private life has a direct bearing on how trustworthy and responsible s/he will be with the public trust. I don't think digging up dirt from 20, 30 years past is honorable.

To some, dirt is relevant only when it involves the other party. If this new flap has legs, however, it will be fun watching the smugly righteous media who took Jack Ryan down try to avoid applying equal treatment to Kerry.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:39 pm
Is the media smugly righteous here, though, or just smut-seeking? I mean, this has it all... famous and famously sexy actress, golden boy politician, sex clubs fer goodness sakes... I don't think it has to be about Republican or Democrat nearly so much as the public's appetite for smut, especially smut plus hubris. (Goden boy Jack assuring the Repub bosses that no, no, he had no skeletons stashed away...)
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:43 pm
Here, i posted this in another thread, but it's appropriate here:

Elsewhere, I wrote:
Ah for the good old days . . .

Augustus the Strong, Electoral and Hereditary Duke of Saxony, and elected King of Poland, was widely renowned and celebrated for bedding a great many women. When Petr Alexeevitch (Peter the Great) was trying to marry his daughter Elizabeth to a French Prince, he promised to put him on the Polish throne, and the French promised a French groom for Elizabeth just as soon as Petr could provide the Polish throne, after Augustus died, and the throne was vacant. Petr objected that Augustus could live another 15 years. The French minister in St. Petersburg commented that all they had to do was find a young, vivacious mistress for him, and she would finish him off. Little did they know Augustus. He lived another 10 years, dying in 1733, when all his old friends and enemies were dead. His one legitimate son was no prize, he was known as Augustus the Weak. His eldest and bastard son, Moritz von Saxe, was France's greatest field marshall, known as Maurice de Saxe. Near the end of his life, Augustus asked his chamberlain how many acknowledged bastards he was paying a pension to--that man replied (this is from the chamberlain's diary) that he didn't recall exactly, but he believed the figure was 355.

At about that time, the King of France was still a boy, and the Regent was Phillipe, Duc d'Orleans. He was famous not only for his sexual escapades, but for a certain taste for country girls and actresses (notorious for centuries as harlots). He usually was the first to try out new girls brought to Paris for the trade, and had a penchant for the homely ones. His mother was embarrassed--not at the nocturnal antics, but the seeming lack of taste he displayed. He replied: Bah, Maman, dans la nuit, touts les chats sont gris. (Bah, Mama, at night, all cats are gray.)

We Christian Soldiers, however, will have no truck with such antics. Perhaps we should just acknowledge our perverse predilections, and insist that all political candidates be castratos.


Sure would be nice if all the Protestants and ultramontane Catholics could get a grip . . .
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:50 pm
Lovely set.

Grip-getting would be on my list, too, of what many folks ought to achieve as regards other people's sexuality. On abuzz, some years back, a fine group of folks discussed which individual they would go back and do in were an Acme TimeMachine to appear in the local electronics stores. I argued for Augustine as my choice.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:52 pm
Just for the numbers freaks: the approximate distribution of the name Ryan in the US State of Illinois is 1 in a 1000, the population is about 12,400,000 leaving us with the distinct impression that there are at least 123, 000 or so Ryans in the confines of the state.


J
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Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 08:53 pm
Them Hibernians breed like the proverbial rabbits, 'tis a well known fack . . .
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 09:39 pm
blatham wrote:
Mom, though she frequently wore one of those French-maid aprons, never cooked. We'd get TV dinners and such them raw.

Don't spoil the fantasy, blatham.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 09:48 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
The Superior Court judge said the public's right to know overrides privacy rights for Jack and Mrs. Ryan's child and ordered the sealed divorce papers unsealed and made public. This was over the objections of the divorced couple. The GOP felt Ryan was too badly damaged to continue and asked him to drop out. Well and good said the Democrats.

Frankly, I doubt the Democrats said anything of the sort. Given how Ryan had been damaged already by the rumors, any substitute candidate would likely have a better chance than Ryan did.

Foxfyre wrote:
Now it seems the media is in a dilemma on whether to go after Kerry's sealed divorce papers from 1988. They have to play fair, right? The campaign is asserting those sealed papers are nobody's business.

There are a number of reasons why court papers are sealed, and I have no idea why Kerry's case might have been (indeed, up to now, I hadn't even known that the papers were sealed). But the fact is that we have open courts in this country, and court papers are public documents. There must be compelling reasons for sealing court papers, and the judge in California determined that Ryan's case did not meet those standards.

As it turns out, Ryan's own attorney, in requesting that the documents be sealed, didn't mention anything about protecting the couple's son: instead, he noted that Ryan was planning on pursuing a political career and that such revelations might be damaging. Which, in the end, proved to be an accurate prediction.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Jun, 2004 09:53 pm
Thanks for the legal clarification, joe. And sorry about mom, an imperfect creature.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2004 03:55 pm
Joe writes:
Quote:
As it turns out, Ryan's own attorney, in requesting that the documents be sealed, didn't mention anything about protecting the couple's son: instead, he noted that Ryan was planning on pursuing a political career and that such revelations might be damaging. Which, in the end, proved to be an accurate prediction.


Would you not agree, however, that the ONLY purpose for opening the sealed records was because Ryan was running for public office?

So how would that not also apply to John Kerry?
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2004 04:07 pm
While I know little about Ryan's politics, it is rather piquant that a modern-day Republican has been outed for such trashy behavior. Talk about family values! I mean, which party wears that badge on its sleeve these days?

Everyone expects Democrats to be a bit sloppy in this regard...
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2004 05:34 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Would you not agree, however, that the ONLY purpose for opening the sealed records was because Ryan was running for public office?

It's the only reason that anyone was interested, but it certainly wasn't the reason why the records were unsealed.

Foxfyre wrote:
So how would that not also apply to John Kerry?

Are you suggesting that politicians running for office should never be allowed to request that their divorce records be sealed?
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2004 05:38 pm
No Joe. I'm asking what is the difference between the two incidents of records being sealed?
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2004 05:41 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
While I know little about Ryan's politics, it is rather piquant that a modern-day Republican has been outed for such trashy behavior. Talk about family values! I mean, which party wears that badge on its sleeve these days?

Everyone expects Democrats to be a bit sloppy in this regard...

From Ryan's official campaign site (still on the web!):
    The breakdown of the family over the past 35 years is one of the root causes of some of our society's most intractable social problems-criminal activity, illegitimacy, and the cyclical nature of poverty. As an elected leader, my interest will be in promoting laws and educating people about the fundamental importance of the traditional family unit as the nucleus of our society.


And from the unsealed divorce records: "The other club he insisted I go to.... It was a bizarre club with cages, whips and other apparatus hanging from the ceiling. Respondent [i.e. Jack Ryan] wanted me to have sex with him there, with another couple watching."

Family values indeed.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Jun, 2004 05:43 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
No Joe. I'm asking what is the difference between the two incidents of records being sealed?

I have absolutely no idea, Foxfyre, since I have no clue why Kerry's records were sealed. Do you know?
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