10
   

What are Confederates proud of?

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:24 pm
@BillRM,
Yeah, that was a truly stupid statement on your part. Representatives of the United States were entitled to reside and operate in Britain, and representatives of the Confederate States were entitled to reside and operate in Britain--that's one of the ways that international relations work.

You seem to have a uncontrolable compulsion to demonstrate your incredible ignorance and stupidity. Sneering at Britain does nothing to repair the damage that your idiocy has caused.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:33 pm
@izzythepush,
The working class of the textile mills were dedicated admirers of Lincoln, even when the war meant they were out of work. The Reform Act of 1832 had given a great many of the working class the vote. Additionally, a significant proportion of the middle and upper middle class were evangelicals who had always supported the anti-slavery movement and in particular, William Wilberforce. It's not as though i'm ignorant of the history of Great Britain. I think it would have been great political stupidity for Palmerston to offer support to the southern confederacy. Witness his purported willingness to support the southern confederacy, it they won a major victory--which he is said to have proposed to Russell, just after the Army of Northern Virginia had won just such a victory. I don't admire Palmerston, but i don't underrate him, either. I think he had too much sense for that, and a long, successful political career, including a great deal of time holding the foreign portfolio suggests to me that he would not have blundered that way, no matter his personal antipathy toward Lincoln. You may, of course, disagree. But don't assume i've not read more than one life of Palmerston, or that i'm not well informed about the political or public opinion situation in Great Britain in the 1860s.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:51 pm
Lincoln wrote trades unionists, who had been thrown out of work by the war, in January, 1863, to this effect: Ï cannot but regard you decisive utterances upon the question (i.e., of slavery) as an instance of sublime Christian heroism which has not been surpassed in any age or in any country." In 1855, Harriet Beecher Stowe had gotten a round-robin letter of support for the abolition of slavery signed by a half a million women in Great Britain, and now called for them to support Mr. Lincoln. Nonconformist ministers in Great Britain then publicly spoke in support of Mr. Lincolm and called on their congregations to pray for the success of northern arms. All of this was in response to Lincoln's emancipation proclamation, which (in my opinion) was better received in Great Britain than in the United States.

(Quote excerpted from and the reaction of women and nonconformists summarized from Great Britain and the American Civil War, E. D. Adams. 2014.)
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:54 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
I don't admire Palmerston,


We've got a park named after him with his statue in it to boot. He does attract some tourists, and that's good for trade.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/53/Palmerston_-_geograph.org.uk_-_259077.jpg/200px-Palmerston_-_geograph.org.uk_-_259077.jpg
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:56 pm
I'm all in favor of trade that doesn't involve violence or exploitation.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 12:59 pm
@Setanta,
He can't do much now, just being a statue.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 02:11 pm
@Setanta,
Sure it does as no nation is allowed not to ban a foreign national from living in their nation with special note of when allowing that foreign national into the nation is harmful to that nation foreign affairs.

What bullshit that you are trying to sell?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 04:22 pm
@BillRM,
What bullshit are y ou trying to write? That was completely incoherent. Admiral Bullock was accredited to Great Britain as an agent of the Confederate States. Unless and until he was apprehended committing a criminal act (he never was) he was free to continue to reside there and represent his nation. I have no idea what you're trying say because, as is so often the case when you get worked up to the level of hysteria, what little skill you have in expressing yourself in English completely abandons you.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 04:36 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

That was completely incoherent.


There's so many double negatives you just lose count. I don't know what he's trying to say. Actually I don't think he does.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 28 Mar, 2015 04:45 pm
The fact of the matter is, not only did Admiral Bullock commit no crimes with which the Crown was willing to charge him, he remained an envoy in good standing, and, fearing prosecution for treason is he returned to the United States, he and his younger brother (who had served with Rafael Semmes on CSS Alabama) remained in Liverpool after the war. It was there that young Theodore Roosevelt met and learned to admire them, when their sister, his mother would visit them.

It is a courtesy of nations to accept one another's envoys, so long as they are not patently odious to the host nation. If their activities do not approach criminality, or there is no evidence of criminality, they may remain. If they are suspected of criminality, or make themselves obnoxious to their hosts, they can be declared persona non grata and expelled. The usual response to that is for the accrediting nation to declare an equal number of persons of the same rank PNG, and to expel them. I haven't denied that Palmerston and Russell were sympathetic to the southern confederacy, just that they were unable to act for political reasons. There was, however, no reason for them to expel Admiral Bullock. I suspect that if they thought they could have gotten away with it, they'd have aided him. The fact that the ship which became CSS Alabama slipped her cables and sailed before agents of Her Majesty's government could intervene is very suspect to me. I suggest that someone acting for Russell tipped the wink to Bullock.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Apr, 2015 12:20 pm
@Setanta,
Thanks for the info, Set.

Sorry for the delay in replying, but I've been away and without the interweb thingy.

0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2015 02:18 am
That's OK, your Lordyship--I had wondered where you'd been lately, and just hoped that you were well.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2015 02:13 pm
@Setanta,
I've been away to the home of the Charolais where, after about the third day, one is actually startled when a vehicle passes by.

Fine wine, crusty campagne bread, cheeses to die for and lazy afternoons playing petanque.

I don't half notice the volume of traffic around North London for the first few days back.

I think the time approacheth when me and the better half go and drop out somewhere. The rat race lost its appeal about ten years ago now.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2015 02:15 pm
Well, i wish the best in whatever endeavor you settle one, as i'm sure most folks here do.
Lordyaswas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2015 02:59 pm
@Setanta,
Well thank you, koind sir, but if we end up somewhere with a herd of chickens and an asparagus orchard, I will definitely make sure that there is a good internet connection so I can continue to haunt these threads until I do a Godfather and pop my clogs among the tomato vines.

0 Replies
 
BrettVAdler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 12 Apr, 2015 07:26 pm
@farmerjohn1324,
There are distinctions that need to be made between a southerner and a confederate (aka a redneck) concerning heritage. A southerner acts classy because they have pride in their unique customs and where they were born and raised. A confederate talks alot about pride to compensate for having no class.
0 Replies
 
 

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