craigslist horror

There are millions of highly unlikely things that happen once in a while to one of the hundreds of millions of us living in the US. How do you decide which of these things we need to take precautions against?

If you take precautions against all of the highly unlikely things that have ever happened (in zoos, and restaurants, and malls, and on quiet streets, and in airports, and in schools, and while visiting family), you wouldn't be able to live life.

Risk is quantifiable. You can make mathematically valid decisions based on which risks are more likely and which actions actually significantly decrease risk. Doing this is rational and reasonable. Looking both ways before crossing a street is a perfectly good example of this.

Reacting out of fear to sensationalistic stories from the internet about things that happen once out of tens of millions of uneventful interactions is neither rational nor reasonable.

does it explain why men came to rule the world while the women took care of the home and kids?

No pain no gain, no risk no reward. And no, government cannot eliminate risk so as to level the playing field no matter what it promises us.

This is the reason why women have not cracked the class ceiling. THis is the reason why women make less money. THey dont have the courage of their convictions to go get what they want, they are too afraid.

Sorry.

Geez Hawkeye! do you really have to take the bait?

This has nothing to do with gender. Boomerang brought up the issue of gender, and Chai pushed it... it really doesn't belong.

Bait or not this has been a big topic of conversation these last few years. Science is looking into the matter, and so far it appears that women get less not because men want to deprive them but rather because their "please the teacher" routines that they perfected in school work less and less well as they move up the power chain. According to this theory women get less not because men are keeping money/power from them, but because they are too timid to go out there and grab money/power and because they are less valuable to the corporate class who holds most of the money when it comes to jobs.


If how people react to risk is partly predicted by gender then yes it does belong. This point is debatable however, the last thing the feminists want is anyone to claim that women make less for good reasons, so science has been none too fast to look into this.

You should see all the women thus far selected to be the first to live on the Moon. Is that because man wants to get rid of us?

Hawk, pftttt seriously. Go getters are go getters regardless of gender you and I both know there are an enormous amount of women that make more money than men and one reason why a lot of women are single until late in life is that certain "men" fear their intelligence and that they earn more than them.

Let's not debate "again" man verses woman..

It's tiresome.

No one is living on the moon during my lifetime. Or going to Mars. Results from a farce are irrelevant.

And you know where the door is, if you dont want to participate then dont participate. The high level of discussions about gender, gender roles, and what a fair society looks like will however likely continue for the foreseeable future unless we completely have our freedom taken from us.

I had to laugh over the last paragraph.

Could you imagine me walking away and not participating?

It's disheartening every time someone puts up a topic, "thanks Chai"somehow it turns into men verses women.

Maybe we should be targeting MARS instead of the Moon!

Actually, it's happened at least twice: http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=7783732.

A couple was killed in Georgia just a few months ago after meeting with someone to see a car: http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/01/28/what-an-alleged-craigslist-killer-did-to-this-georgia-couple/

There was also the "craigslist killer": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Markoff

Just because something is statistically insignificant doesn't mean a person should abandon common sense. If you're going to meet a stranger in a private place it makes sense to let someone know where you're going and when you'll be there.

Like I said, these crimes don't prevent me from using craigslist or similar services. In fact, I'm working on a deal right now as part of a fundraiser for a non-profit. I'm not paranoid but I'm not stupid.

Sure Boomerang,

You can give individual sensational stories. I could return with equally sensationalized stories about the dangers of going to the mall, or walking down the street, or visiting friends, or eating at a restaurant, or being mauled by animals at the zoo. But why bother. The plural form of "anecdote" is not data.

If you look at the statistics as a whole, these cases are extremely rare.

I don't know what your definition of "common sense" is, but if a risk is significantly insignificant than any effort you put into avoiding it is meaningless as far as actually reducing risk. Although I do think if it makes you feel better, then by all means you should do it.

This is an important discussion to have because of social policy. When sensational stories emphasize insignificant risks it takes away from reasonable steps we can take to minimize real risks. When I was a kid, there was a big scare about razor blades in apples. This hung over Halloween in spite of the fact that it may have never even happened.

This fake story about razor blades in apples was a huge deal. The fact that a number real kids were actually killed by cars while trick or treating wasn't taken so seriously.

We should pay more attention to facts and reason than to emotional sensationalism.

According the the statistics here: http://www.iihs.org/iihs/topics/t/general-statistics/fatalityfacts/gender#Age-differences, my demographic has a very low probability of being killed in a car crash.

I'm still going to wear my seatbelt.

are you going to worry about dying each time you get in the car? Are you going to get in the car less often because you are concerned about dying?

Let's look at the math Boomerang...

According to the link you posted, assuming you are a female between 40 and 70 (correct me if I am wrong) the death rate for your demographic is somewhere between 3.9 and 5.8 per 100,000. This is a rate that you say is very low

The highest estimate I could find Craigslist related deaths for any year (a figure that includes shady transactions such as adult services that apply to you) is 12 deaths per year.

There are 50 million Craigslist users in the US each year. Meaning that the Craigslist rate (for all demographics) is 0.024 per 100,000.

With the most liberal of assumptions, even including people seeking and selling adult services (which I feel is safe to assume is more risky than buying baby clothes)...

Using Craigslist is over 150 times safer than riding in an automobile. Of course, wearing a seat belt when you go pick up your Craigslist purchase is a good idea.

You're going against your own argument dummy.

No you don't worry about dying, no you don't get in your car less. You wear your seat belt as a precaution, just like you brush your teeth to prevent tooth decay.

You don't worry if you have to go into a complete strangers house if you know you've done a simple thing like letting them hear you tell another person where you are, because you could be tracked to there.

You two, max and you are such trolls. Bringing up any little excuse to poke against peoples common sense. I'm not going to address either of you anymore. You're boring and predictable.

You know Chai, this name-calling is unnecessary. If you don't want to participate in this discussion you could choose to not participate.

You had the right to express your opinion. Other people have the right to express theirs. These personal attacks aren't helpful.

By the way, "poking holes" in common sense is a good thing to do.

"Common sense" are the things that we feel are true even though there are no facts or logic to back them up. You should question these things because they are often wrong. If the things I feel are true turn out to not be supported by the facts, you would be doing me a favor to point it out.

I appreciate it when people poke holes in my prejudices or pre-existing beliefs. That is the best way for me to learn.

I am very sorry. I just reread this... I meant to say that adult services don't apply to you.

The point that she is making is that she is taking a simple easy precaution to protect herself just in case - by using a seatbelt. Similar situation with using Craiglist - she will use a simple precaution.

In both cases, she is not worried about dying each time or doing something less, simply using a precaution just in case.

Do you use a seatbelt? Why - are you worried or thinking you are going to die because you are in a car?

Same thing --

Now it would be different if she stopped her behaviour of using craiglist - but that is not the case, she is simply letting someone know where she is going.

Which by the way - I typically do in everyday circumstances - going to the store - hey hon, going to the mall. I am not saying that to my husband because I think I'm going to be killed in a mall shoot out....I do it for common sense reasons - if I don't show up at a normal time and he can't reach me, he knows where to look for me.

I think what Boomer does makes a lot of sense, and she always seems like a level headed gal. My complaint is about the people spreading fear and panic about using Craigslist when from what we know the facts not only dont justify the such but show that using this service is extremely safe. The long running complaint that I have voiced often here is that all too often we moderns live in our fantasies, that we cant tell the difference between fact and fiction.

I saw today that Seattle Police will facilitate meetings between buyers and sellers ...really? Acting like these fears are justified only serves to reinforce them. What the city through the Police should be telling the citizens is that there is no factual reason people should be afraid, but that if they are they should not use Craigslist. We as a society need to encourage making choices based upon facts, not the imaginations of neurotics. But leave it to a very liberal city administration to get the response ass backwards.

Thanks, Hawkeye.

How do the Seattle police intend to do this? Will someone call the police and ask them to go along with them? Will people be required to meet at the police station?

This seems so completely ridiculous. Seattle's craigslist is HUGE. The police wouldn't have time for anything else.

Someone at the dog park was asking yesterday if we knew any place they could post some plants they were digging out of their yard that they wanted to give away. They didn't want to use craigslist because it was "too dangerous". They thought freecycle or neighborhood would be safer. The fact that they are just teeny tiny craigslists knock offs that reach far fewer people didn't matter.

Weird.

The police are supposed to serve the community. If the community has these fears (justified or not) then the police responding is part of their job... and since they have to be in the community anyway, this is probably not even an inconvenience.

I wonder what percentage of people have any fear of Craiglist. Obviously Craigslist is doing quite well. I have been looking for furniture... and there is no shortage of people who are willing buy and sell an number of things from private homes.

I don't think the Seattle police will be that busy with this offer. It is nice they are making this offer, but I doubt most people will bother.