What good does religion offer the world today?

@TheCobbler,

Your comprehension skills are abysmal, Cobbler. You shouldn't be in this kind of discussion. Your are not mentally equipped for it.

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@Frank Apisa,

I am not mentally equipped?

I don't need to constantly post responses in bold and I don't think, uhhhh, well there could really be a tooth fairy.

Frank, the tooth fairy has his/her "reasons" for not really collecting your teeth... (satire)

Just because the tooth fairy does not collect a tooth does not mean he does not have his reasons... (cynical)

And once again what part of "I am an agnostic" don't you understand?

But I am not so smitten by the "person in the dark" syndrome to entertain the idea that maybe there just is no God...

I am not so comfortable in agnostic superlative indecision that I cannot expect God to plainly reveal his/her motives for standing idle while preventable disasters are ignored by any and all deities.

I don't need to constantly delude myself with the idea that "God has his/her unfathomable reasons."

In the Bible there is Jehovah and then there is Elohim.

Hebrew writers supposed that Elohim is the part of God that created the heavens and the earth and Jehovah is the part of God that tenderly nurtures this creation.

Well I did not see Elohim create the heavens and the earth but the evidence is clearly here that the heavens and earth do indeed exist but as for Jehovah? I see no evidence whatsoever that there is an active Jehovah God shaping events on a day to day basis, writing holy books, speaking from clouds, the fluttering of wings and "parting the Red Sea"....

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God can be so hilarious, ha ha...

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Pat Robertson Says if We Keep Mocking Him, God Will Smack Us Down
http://www.politicususa.com/2015/04/30/pat-robertson-mocking-him-god-smack.html

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@TheCobbler,

No...you are not mentally equipped to have these kinds of discussions...and you do not have the temperament for it either.

I am an agnostic.

If you are one also, something I seriously doubt, you would understand what I am saying.

IF there are gods, we humans may not be able to comprehend nor understand what motivates them.

That was essentially what I said to your originally.

If you want to suppose YOUR expectations of gods is what gods must follow...I thank you for the laugh.

Catch up. I'll be waiting for ya.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank not all agnostics believe God is too big to perceive.

Some agnostics simply do not know if God is real or imagined. They are not atheists because in honesty they admit they are not sure if there is a God or not. I believe this way. I do not believe I can never know God, I just believe I do not know God... It is just as arrogant as the ardently religious to demand DEFINITLY one cannot know God or God's reasoning.
That is what "you" do not understand with your "narrow" definition of agnosticism...

I am very much so aware of your definition of agnosticism and I do not "fully" agree.

I do not know God but to say "with surety" I cannot know God is just as religiously fanatical as those who claim to know God.

How do you know God is unknowable? Really... You don't...

You are just as deluded as your religious counterparts and you have done a disservice to true agnosticism...

Maybe we cannot know God, I do not KNOW that either... Or, maybe somewhere in our psyche is all the power and knowledge of God...

I am just saying the inactivity of any and all Gods in times of disaster speaks volumes.

My computer can make a billion calculations a second yet I do not doubt its existence as I doubt God.

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I will tell you all a funny story about a man who thought he figured out how to obtain God's will. Apparently he had inquired of God on many occasions to tell him the way to live his daily life and got no answer at all (like everyone else).

So he devised a plan, every morning he would close his eyes, open the Bible, put his finger down on the page anywhere, he would then open his eyes, read and whatever the scriptures said in the verse, that is what he would do that day.

It worked out okay for a few days until one day he put his finger down on the page and read "and Judas Iscariot went out and hanged himself.".

He said to himself, "I do not like that one." So he tried once more to obtain the will of God. He closed his eyes, flipped some pages, put his finger down, opened his eyes and read, "What thou readest, go and do likewise."....

Smile

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@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

Frank not all agnostics believe God is too big to perceive.

How interesting. By the way...not all agnostics like the same movies.

Quote:

Some agnostics simply do not know if God is real or imagined. They are not atheists because in honesty they admit they are not sure if there is a God or not.

Or the same television programs.

My agnosticism (posted many times):

I do not know if there is a GOD or if there are gods;
I do not know if there are no gods;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that they are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.

Quote:

I believe this way. I do not believe I can never know God, I just believe I do not know God... It is just as arrogant as the ardently religious to demand DEFINITLY one cannot know God or God's reasoning.
That is what "you" do not understand with your "narrow" definition of agnosticism...

There is nothing narrow about my agnosticism...it is very straight forward and concise.

There is very little difference between our views on agnosticism...but you simply are unwilling to actually read what people write...and respond to what you want them to have said.

I am very much so aware of your definition of agnosticism and I do not "fully" agree.

Quote:

I do not know God but to say "with surety" I cannot know God is just as religiously fanatical as those who claim to know God.

I have NEVER said GOD cannot be know...and in fact, have argued vehemently that IF there is a GOD...there is no reason why its existence cannot be know if the GOD wants its existence know.

Why do you make this crap up?

Quote:

How do you know God is unknowable? Really... You don't...

Wake the hell up, Cobbler. I defy you to quote anything of mine that suggests in any way that GOD is unknowable.

Why do you make this crap up?

Quote:

You are just as deluded as your religious counterparts and you have done a disservice to true agnosticism...

You do not know what the hell you are talking about...and I am ashamed that you identify yourself as an agnostic. I am sure the atheists here are delighted to see you...because you do more damage to agnosticism than they are able to do.

Quote:

Maybe we cannot know God, I do not KNOW that either... Or, maybe somewhere in our psyche is all the power and knowledge of God...

I am just saying the inactivity of any and all Gods in times of disaster speaks volumes.

My computer can make a billion calculations a second yet I do not doubt its existence as I doubt God.

As respectfully as possible, Cobbler...you are a clod who apparently cannot read or comprehend the written word.

You are arguing against windmills of your own making.

Give it a rest.

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@Frank Apisa,

Here are a few links to threads of mine. Just read the OP in them.

Then get your head out of your ass...and actually discuss what problems you have with what I actually say...rather than what you are pretending I am saying.

http://able2know.org/topic/4543-1
http://able2know.org/topic/4543-1
http://able2know.org/topic/192088-1

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank I did not make this up, many agnostics believe "you cannot know God".

Agnosticism Wikipedia
Agnosticism is the view that the truth values of certain claims – especially metaphysical and religious claims such as whether or not God, the divine or the supernatural exist – are unknown and perhaps unknowable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism

And I need only to go back a few pages and can quote your own words indicating this idea.

That God is too smart for us to understand why God seemingly behaves as a barbarian at times. We are too stupid to understand our monster God.

Maybe so, but my sensibilities tell me that is just an excuse for others to play the blame game when bad things happen to good people.

Example: God saved the righteous Lot from the inhospitable Sodom and Gomorrah so Lot could get drunk and sleep with his daughters.

Why? Because God is all wise! Far be it for us to question God's lofty reasons. (cynical)

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@TheCobbler,

I believe Frank would say reality exists.
But our perception is necessarily flawed.

Kind of like my remebrance of all the jokes I told at my buddy Pete's bachelor party.

Doggone, I was sure funny.

I haven't heard from Pete since then. I wonder how he's doing. Drunk

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@neologist,

People insult seemingly blasphemous perception to exalt errant religious dogma too. Smile

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@TheCobbler,

Quote:

Frank I did not make this up, many agnostics believe "you cannot know God".

I do not care what “many agnostics” say or “believe” Cobbler.

You claimed I, Frank Apisa, said it! Here are your words:

Quote:

I believe this way. I do not believe I can never know God, I just believe I do not know God... It is just as arrogant as the ardently religious to demand DEFINITLY one cannot know God or God's reasoning.
That is what "you" do not understand with your "narrow" definition of agnosticism..

Now you write:

Quote:

And I need only to go back a few pages and can quote your own words indicating this idea.

I DEFY YOU TO DO SO…because I have NEVER said any such thing.

(I doubt you will man up and acknowledge that you are totally wrong in this charge.)

And you really should read the links I furnished you...because I talk about this and have talked about it for many, many years.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank wrote: If there is a GOD...why not call the GOD, GOD...even if we humans cannot comprehend what something greater than us might do...or why that "something greater" might do it.

Comment:
"Something greater than us" would imply an "unknowable" grey area...

Your own words implicate you Frank.

Ephesians 3
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; 19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

Comment:
Unlike your idea as stated by your words above Frank, that God may know more than us, this 2000 year old scriptures implies we can "know" not just question, and be filled with "all" the fullness of God.

I do not know if either are true.
As I have previously stated, one can't have it both ways but one can refrain from deciding either way.

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@TheCobbler,

Your erudite effulgency seems exasperatingly esoteric.

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@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

Frank wrote: If there is a GOD...why not call the GOD, GOD...even if we humans cannot comprehend what something greater than us might do...or why that "something greater" might do it.

Comment:
"Something greater than us" would imply an "unknowable" grey area...

Your own words implicate you Frank.

There is nothing of that sort implied there, Cobbler.

You were totally wrong...and as I told you, you could not find me saying that one cannot know god...BECAUSE I HAVE NEVER SAID IT NOR IMPLIED IT.

You are pretending my words imply "DEFINITLY one cannot know God or God's reasoning" because you realize you cannot find those words written by me.

The reason I have never said or written them...is because I think the notion is a silly as saying there is a god...or there are no gods. There is no way that I can possibly KNOW that one cannot know GOD or GOD's reasoning...so I would never say that.

It is sad you cannot acknowledge that you were wrong...but I expected that of you. I figured you would not be able to man up and make that acknowledgement.

You are not an especially gifted debater, Cobbler, and it appears you prefer to invent stuff...and then argue against what you invent. Good move on your part, because actually debating requires a mental ability, patience, and a solid temperament...none of which you possess.

You are an embarrassment to the notion of agnosticism...but it is your right to make it less than it is.

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@Frank Apisa,

You go from denial to what seems like lying.

Your words say a different thing Frank.

What you believe is your business until you start hurling your ideas around in public. My words are not always well formed either.

You insult Epicurus by insinuating that God is wiser than humans...

Though the burden of proof of such a statement is also out of the realm of evidentiary observation and is simply based upon another form of belief and superstition.

God must be smarter than humans because look how dumb some people are huh?

We know some humans are dumb but do not have a "real live" God to comparatively observe behaviorally.

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@TheCobbler,

You do not know what you are talking about...and you are lacking in an ability to communicate what you think you know.

You misrepresented what I said...and now that you cannot produce this quote you said you could easily obtain...you are flailing. Stop embarrassing yourself...and go do something else...something for which you have qualification.

Macrame, perhaps.

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@Frank Apisa,

It did not take long for your posts to gravitate from substantive discussion to childish and shallow insults...

You character is in question godless or not you have some problems Frank.

King James Bible
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am nothing.

1 Reply

@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

It did not take long for your posts to gravitate from substantive discussion to childish and shallow insults...

Your first post to me was a childish, shallow insult, Cobbler.

C'mon. Be a more competent foil.

Quote:

You character is in question godless or not you have some problems Frank.

Are you speaking in tongues here...or is this further evidence of what I have suggested about your abilities?

Quote:

King James Bible
Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not love, I am nothing.

Same question as above!

1 Reply

What good does religion offer the world today?

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