AGNOSTICISM -- is it fence straddling -- or is it certainty?

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In a previous discussion here in Able2Know, Craven referred to agnosticism as "fence straddling."

I don't think Craven was being rude or nasty -- I think he was merely tweaking agnostics in a discussion where he had asked people to share their "beliefs" -- whether the belief was that there is a GOD -- or the belief was that there are no gods.

But I wonder -- why is agnosticism so often referred to as "fence straddling?"

How does acknowledging the truth -- and taking a hard and fast position -- get interpreted as fence straddling?

I do not presume to speak for all agnostics -- but I will offer a statement about my agnosticism -- one that I think applies rather generally. I will offer it as though the issue were "Does God (or do gods) exist or are there no gods?" I want to be sure everyone understands, though, that this is only one of many Ultimate Questions about which one can take an agnostic position.

So here is the statement about my agnosticism:

I do not know if there is a GOD; I also do not know if there are no gods; and I do not have enough reliable evidence upon which to make a reasonable guess in either direction.

Now...let me add this, but understand that this is not a statement about my agnosticism, but rather it is a GUESS about reality. The guess is made because there is absolutely no way for me to KNOW what I am guessing about here for certain.

I suspect (GUESS) that nobody else KNOWS if there is a GOD; I suspect (GUESS) that nobody else KNOWS if there are no gods; and I suspect (GUESS) that nobody else has enough reliable evidence upon which to make a reasonable guess in either direction.

QUESTION:

Why would such a firm, unambiguous position ever be interpreted as fence straddling?

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well, from my pointly little head an agnostic is a bit like someone who cant quite rule out the existence of unicorns because they seem like such an interesting creature regardless of total lack of evidence as to their existence. if we can imagine it there is always the possibility?

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I never really heard it called fence straddling but in retrospect that is indeed what it is for many. Do I know there is or is not a supreme being? Do I believe there is, I can't even answer that with certainty? Let me put it in these terms. Emotionally, I believe there is a God. Why, because I want and I guess need to. Logically, I have grave doubts. Am I straddling the fence between logic and emotion. Absolutely.
One thing I am certain of is that Organized religion is a crock.

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Agnostism is by definition a lack of certainty. Does that mean that agnostics are "fence sitters", or is it instead the practical recognition that no "certainty" regarding the existence of a god is possible? I think the latter.

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Asherman wrote:

Agnostism is by definition a lack of certainty. . . . . the practical recognition that no "certainty" regarding the existence of a god is possible. . . . .

I agree. I don't think its fence straddling if your just acknowledging that there is a limit to how much you can know for certain. There is always that degree of uncertainty.

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IMHO, agnostics are people that are open to receive other people's opinions, and they are ready to consider proofs of both the camps: theists and atheists. If someone manages to convince them in existence (or non-exsitence) of God, they will join either of the camps. At least, these are honest people that are not pretending being what they are not, and not scared to admit that they do not know.

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Frank,

You are right on several counts, the first being that 'twas good natured ribbing. Agnostics must tired of the "fence straddling" label, but it's just a low debate tactic with no merit. Agnosticism IS a decision, just as much as it is the lack of one.

"We can only be certain of our ignorance."

I called it a sound position because it can't be argued against. It is the only position in regard to religion that is 100% correct without room for argument.

Discussing religion with you brings back the good ole days Frank.

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And never let anyone tell you that straddling a fence is an easy or comfortable thing to do, god wot - (or not).

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So where do I fit in? Just like I don't really care if unicorns exist, I don't care if a God exists. IMO it is incumbent upon the believers to prove the existence of God. It is not necessary to prove that something does not exist, or might exist.

The only reason that I get into these discussions at all, is because I find that the majority of people do believe. Often decisions that affect me in government decisions, and other facets of my life, are directly connected with a belief in a God. Since I am affected, I feel that I need to state MY beliefs. If it were not for believers, I don't think that that I would have any concern at all about the subject!

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Good replies. Just mulling them over in my mind. Not sure there is much to add -- although I am heartened by the number of agnostics I've seen posting in the threads I've skimmed so far.

Really just trying to get the feel of this forum.

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I see agnosticism as a truism and a starting point that tempers the way you see the world. It's important because it keeps us grounded in the ultimate realty, but it's meaningless beyond that.

In other words, I think the reason most people don't think about it much, is because it is a self reinforcing truism which does not provide much external benefit; it doesn't teach us anything other than the fact that you can not know anything for certain. You could dwell on that for eternity if you wanted, and it would never teach you anything new. Once you've got it, you just put it in your back pocket and continue to explore life with the only tools available to you.

It's like if an omniscient being said to you one day, "Pssst, you're an idiot". And you knew it was true. So what? It's still all you've got to work with. So you recognize it and move on. So what? Smile

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rosborne979 wrote:

...it doesn't teach us anything other than the fact that you can not know anything for certain.

COMMENT:

Agnosticism is not about "...you cannot know anything for certain."

Agnosticism simply acknowledges that SOME things cannot be known for certain -- or even more correctly...that some things are not know for certain -- whether they CAN BE or not.

And there is a huge amount of value in recognizing and acknowledging that there are things one does not know.

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Frank, There are many things in life that we have very little knowledge. In my world, I'd rather not speculate on whether there is a creator. I find that pursuit a waste of my time. I'd rather acknowledge what I seem to know, and live my life in that manner. I am a professed atheist, and only believe we have a very short life span on this earth. My philosophy of life is to treat all living things with respect and dignity. I have no need for religious teachings and debate. It simplifies my life. c.i.

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I am sure there are many things about religion that we can never know, but I don't care about them except when the believers affect me (usually in a negative manner).

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AGNOSTICISM -- is it fence straddling -- or is it certainty?

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