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Atheists cannot KNOW there are no gods, but theists possibly can KNOW there is a GOD.

 
 
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 11:52 am
If there is a GOD…and IF the GOD wanted someone (or everyone) to KNOW IT exists…there does not seem to be any way to prevent that from happening.

Theists at least have the possibility of KNOWING that a GOD exists.

Atheists can only guess…or “believe.”

Kinda weird, isn’t it?

Counter-intuitive, actually.

Theists MAY BE believers (most apparently are)…but hard atheists MUST BE believers.

Fact is, I think (suspect, guess) most atheists “believe” there are no gods.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 7 • Views: 8,523 • Replies: 161

 
edgarblythe
 
  5  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 12:52 pm
What a crock. Give me a break. And also, Horseshit.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:05 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
What a crock. Give me a break. And also, Horseshit.


Hey, Edgar.

I get the impression you disagree with something I said here.

Any chance you could point out a specific...and give an argument that refutes or rebuts it?

I'd love to discuss it with you.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:30 pm


http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=the-myth-of-the-beginning-2004-05

As I've asked before: In an infinite Universe, what would be the place and purpose, the necessity, for a god?

Therefore, for me, it's not a question of believing or guessing or anything else besides not being able to think of a single reason for the existence of such a thing as a god or gods.

Joe(No supernatural beings need apply)Nation
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:50 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
As I've asked before: In an infinite Universe, what would be the place and purpose, the necessity, for a god?


Joe Nation, are you actually suggesting that the lack of necessity for something means that it does not exist?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 01:55 pm
All I have ever heard from atheists in defense of their blind guess that there are no gods are variations on two themes:'

One...the theists cannot produce a god for examination.

Two...there is no need for gods to explain existence.


As for number one: If there are gods and they do not want to be seen or examined, I cannot think of any reason why they could not prevent people from seeing or examining them. That theme falls flat!

As for number two: There is nothing about existence that requires there be no gods. If a theist were to suggest that because "there is nothing about existence that requires there be no gods" is reason to suggest "therefore gods exist"...you atheists would rightfully laugh at the argument.

You ought to laugh at that second theme for the same reason.

Setanta
 
  4  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:00 pm
I always figured that Frank is a closet theist who is unwilling to come out.
Joe Nation
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:01 pm
@Frank Apisa,
As pertains to gods, yes.

There is no reason for a god to exist in an infinite universe, no place for it to be nor activity which wherein such a thing could perform those acts which believers like yourself claim a god does do. It doesn't.

So, there is not only no evidence for such a thing existing, there is no reason for there to be one.

Why would there be one?

Joe(or a committee of them)Nation

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:06 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I always figured that Frank is a closet theist who is unwilling to come out.


Well, you "figuring" is usually much more logical than that, Setanta...and I suspect much more close to correct.

I am not a theist...nor am I an atheist. I do get a kick out of the fact that people want to classify me as both.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:09 pm
@Joe Nation,
Quote:
Why would there be one?


Beats the hell out of me. Why would there be mosquito or malaria?

Just because it seems strange is not reason to suggest it cannot or should not exist.

Anyway, as I said, theists can possibly KNOW there is a GOD, but atheists cannot KNOW there are no gods.

I have no problem with you blindly guessing there are none.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:10 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I don't very much care how you are "classified." However, like Queen Gertrude, i suspect the lady doth protest too much.
Val Killmore
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:15 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Do you know what would be kidney punch, that if God sent a mere mortal to proclaim his existence (prophet, etc, etc) and we agnostics and atheists didn't believe it.
I wonder if the argument: "I thought they were false prophets" would hold in front of the deity.

Or if there a God in a 4th, 5th or 6th dimension, or th dimension, and can not be known in our 3rd dimension without the deity making itself present in our dimension (Similar to how a first dimension creature can not see a 3rd dimension human) and then does not present itself to everyone but only a few. Then are all the non-presented (to those whom the deity did not show itself) populous who don't believe, free from the "evil" of not believing.
Will it be a sin to be a doubting Thomas?

A bit far fetched are my propositions, but nevertheless, brain food to chew on...
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:15 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
I don't very much care how you are "classified." However, like Queen Gertrude, i suspect the lady doth protest too much.


Yeah, I feel that same way. Why don't you try to get a handle on it? I've told everyone that I am agnostic...and I've described my agnosticism at great lengths. But you are suggesting I am hiding something...that I am a "closet theist"...just as many have suggested I am an atheist.

Y'all protesteth too much!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:18 pm
@Val Killmore,
Quote:
Do you know what would be kidney punch, that if God sent a mere mortal to proclaim his existence (prophet, etc, etc) and we agnostics and atheists didn't believe it.


I truly doubt most of us would "believe" it...or even give it much serious consideration.


Quote:
I wonder if the argument: "I thought they were false prophets" would hold in front of the deity.


Don't really know. If there is a GOD like the one described in the Bible...we are in a shitload of trouble!
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  5  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Ignoring the way you butcher the language, arguments from what others claim are meaninglesss in any discussion of what i have written. Years ago, and a few times since, i have asked you why you make a distinction between the proposition of a supernatural deity and propositions about supernatural faries, pixies or elves. Once, the very first time, you were honest enough to say you didn't know. Since then, you've tried to be sly about it, but you rhetorical skills are too paltry. So, as i say, i have long figured that you are a closet theist who cannot be honest with us, and probably not with yourself. So many people here have pointed out that your "agnosticism" is selective. You just sneer at that these days, because you've got no good reply to the criticism.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:21 pm
@Frank Apisa,
If we wait long enough andlisten to him keep up with this Apisashit, Franks head is gonna explode like a watermelon hit by a .50 cal.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:25 pm
We should all probably stop feeding him. He's so desparate to demonstrate the "superiority" of his understanding.

See ya 'round, guys, i'm outta here . . .
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:25 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Ignoring the way you butcher the language, arguments from what others claim are meaninglesss in any discussion of what i have written. Years ago, and a few times since, i have asked you why you make a distinction between the proposition of a supernatural deity and propositions about supernatural faries, pixies or elves. Once, the very first time, you were honest enough to say you didn't know. Since then, you've tried to be sly about it, but you rhetorical skills are to paltry. So, as is say, i have long figured that you are a closet theist who cannot be honest with us, and probably not with yourself. So many people here have pointed out that your "agnosticism" is selective. You just sneer at that these days, because you've got no good reply to the criticism.


Setanta...all you ever do is to paraphrase what you suppose I have said...and then argue against that. You create straw man...and then tilt against them. Actually quote something I've said...and challenge me on it. I will respond.

Quote:
Ignoring the way you butcher the language...but you rhetorical skills are to paltry.


Pot; kettle; black. Laughing my ass off!

0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:26 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
If we wait long enough andlisten to him keep up with this Apisashit, Franks head is gonna explode like a watermelon hit by a .50 cal.


Instead of the wishful thinking, Farmerman, why not point out what you see as wrong with what I wrote...and we can discuss it?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Wed 13 Jun, 2012 02:27 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
We should all probably stop feeding him. He's so desparate to demonstrate the "superiority" of his understanding.

See ya 'round, guys, i'm outta here . . .


Bye, Setanta. Watch that door!
0 Replies
 
 

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