55
   

What good does religion offer the world today?

 
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 04:18 pm
@izzythepush,
I am not as monochrome as you suggest either but I put a lot more faith in science that I do in religion. I find religion to be a joke for the most part.

As for fighter jets...

Our most powerful fighter jets or rather "spacecraft" today are not fuel based but they are nuclear based.. The very energy that powers the sun.

Nuclear energy can be a clean form of energy but once again the dirty energy conservatives choose to employ the worst forms of nuclear energy to profit from.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 06:14 pm
@TheCobbler,
Just comparing the spending on defense between the US and Russia should assure us of some security.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 06:35 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:
It's your insane gun laws that are the problem.

As if freedom and civil rights were insane.


izzythepush wrote:
We changed our gun laws, why won't you?

Because we believe in freedom and civil rights.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 07:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Just comparing the spending on defense between the US and Russia should assure us of some security.


All it assures you of is that the USA is the war mongering country you have always known it to be but you push this reality out of your head just as you push so many other realities out of your head.

Why can't any of you seem to be able to grasp that a country that has spent 93% of its years at war isn't really even a country?
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 07:30 pm
@izzythepush,
I came out of the closet when I was 3 years old and never went back in. So your assumptions about my state seems as monochrome and stereotypical as one can get. I endured grammar school and high school homophobe bullies and hung around with the girls to maybe even spite the boys and because the girls were more accepting and often smarter at that age. Also many of the boys had hang-ups that sadly many would never recover from and they would one day become conservatives out of their fear of women...

As for clergy who have "seen reason and common sense" that is because many clergy have also studied science...

I not only studied science which was first nature but I also studies religion and became ordained clergy.

It was the religion that was conflicted, not me. I know who I am and I have tried simply to take the best of many bad situations.

I turned out educated and empathetic, not because of religion but also in spite of religion. In spite of the bullies and in spite of the preachers and their hell and damnation. They have used the name of Jesus Christ to promote their bigotry and very long ago I became wise to their cunning ways. Because I studied the holy books harder than they did and I found the good that was there to be obtained. I realized that good can be found everywhere and it is not proprietary to any religion but is part of a moral human code of ethics that is innate within society and the human condition.

Religion exploits that good and uses the name of God and Jesus Christ and other so called "holy individuals" to exploit and profit from the misery they inflict on others.

Science is the closest and most direct way to God... For, it tries to understand the natural world with eyes wide open, with a skeptical,
analytical, and rational mind...
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 07:38 pm
@TheCobbler,
Quote:
I realized that good can be found everywhere and it is not proprietary to any religion but is part of a moral human code of ethics that is innate within society and the human condition.


How did it miss most of the USA, Cobbler? What most people would think of as good people have been long supporting actively and more passively by their inaction, the many USA war crimes and USA terrorism, not to mention USA pillaging the wealth of the poor of the world.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 4 Mar, 2018 08:26 pm
@TheCobbler,
My motto has always been, ever since I can remember, is to treat everybody with respect and dignity. I came to this conclusion based on what I observed in religion; other religions are all false religions, and the only true religion is the one each claim to be. I have questioned why religion must be homophobic. Why must religion criticize people who are in love? It just didn't make any sense to me.
I'm the only yellow sheep of the family; all my siblings are christians, and I'm an atheist. They tell me I'm stupid.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 01:50 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

I am not as monochrome as you suggest


Well try acting like that way. You choose extreme examples to back up your point. Maybe you're not the other side of the coin to the religious fundamentalist but you're in danger of becoming that.

Not all religious people are bad, and not all scientists are motivated by altruism. Look at the scientists who conducted experiments in Nazi death camps.

Islam kept safe vast amounts of knowledge lost to the West. We would know next to nothing about Greek philosophers and mathematicians if it weren't for them. The fact that Muslims were commanded to seek out knowledge is what gave us modern science and bump started the Renaissance.
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 04:06 am
@izzythepush,
Izzy, "There are no gay people in Iran". Just like there are no scientists in religion...

The Hippocratic oath is the fundamental foundation of science... Hitler's "scientists" as you refer to them did not adhere to this principle. They used racism, a closed minded rationale and narrow sighted philosophy to guide their "experiments"... They did harm... does that sound a bit like radical religion?

You accuse Newton of witchcraft when in fact it was called, alchemy; turning silver into gold.

"Nuclear fusion
In nuclear physics, nuclear fusion is a reaction in which two or more atomic nuclei come close enough to form one or more different atomic nuclei and subatomic particles."

Elements of earth, water, fire and air; these are indeed the fundamental elements of science. Science went on to name many more elements as they also now are naming every sub atomic particle, microbe, link on the chain of DNA and protein in the world. They have now discovered an actual gravity particle! All while the pious offer their thoughts and prayers.

We have entire sects of religion that are anti-science, flat earthers, gays hanging from ropes in Iran and women stoned to death due to their husband's adultery...

Do no harm...

I am not buying your bleeding heart appeasement for religion. I don't care if they pose with their kitty cat for their glamour photo op, they are still a part of a machine that will "do wrong" commit genocide, exterminate 6 million Jews (or Arabs) if their god tells them to. They justify war with scripture while ignoring the whole point of "the prince of peace".

"Non-maleficence, which is derived from the maxim, is one of the principal precepts of bioethics that all healthcare students are taught in school and is a fundamental principle throughout the world."

That is science...

You can drop that money into researching a cure for cancer, or protecting the environment... or you can drop it in the church collection plate and that money will go to bribe a senator to vote for more guns for your church to worship... Choose wisely.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 04:45 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

The Hippocratic oath is the fundamental foundation of science...


That refers to the medical profession, not scientists as a whole.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 04:46 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

or you can drop it in the church collection plate and that money will go to bribe a senator to vote for more guns for your church to worship... Choose wisely.


I don't go to church, neither do I have senators or congressmen representing me.

Newsflash, I don't live in bloody America.
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 04:56 am
@izzythepush,
The medical profession is the bedrock of all science.


Here is one day in the life 0f science.

• Understanding freshwater toxic algal blooms
• 'Botox' improves appearance of facial scars in reconstructive surgery
• Brain mechanisms that give The Iceman unusual resistance to cold
• Nut consumption may aid colon cancer survival
• Can our eyes help predict who will develop memory loss?
• The fine-tuning of two-dimensional materials
• Lake Montcortès in Spain reveals the ecological footprint of climate change from the last 500 years
• What happens in the brain during unconsciousness?
• Mineralogy of potential lunar exploration site
• Personalizing wearable devices
• Fish oil and probiotic supplements in pregnancy may reduce risk of childhood allergies
• Glowing molecule can reveal live tuberculosis bacteria
• Land partnerships have high potential to preserve biodiversity as climate shifts
• New tardigrade species Macrobiotus shonaicus sp. nov. identified in Japan
• Patients may live longer after hip replacement, study suggests
• Moms who co-sleep beyond six months may feel more depressed, judged
• New data helps explain recent fluctuations in Earth's magnetic field
• Dressing atoms in an ultracold soup
• Biologists document the secondary extinction of a disease-carrying mosquito following rat eradication on Palmyra Atoll
• Search for first stars uncovers 'dark matter'
• A new way to combine soft materials
• Black holes from small galaxies might emit gamma rays
• Obesity not a risk factor for acute respiratory illnesses, study finds
• Soil cannot halt climate change
• New mathematical framework establishes the risk of dramatic collapses of real networks
• As summers get warmer, more rain may not be better than less
• For girls who mature early, psychological problems last into adulthood
• Lithium treatment for bipolar disorder linked to lowest risk of rehospitalization
• Don't want to lose a finger? Let a robot give a hand
• A lithium battery that operates at -70 degrees Celsius, a record low
• Modern volcanism tied to events occurring soon after Earth's birth
• Genomic analysis underscores need for precision therapies that target pediatric cancer
• 'Obesity paradox' debunked
• Within 180 million years of the Big Bang, stars were born
• Missing link found between pathways involved in cell development
• New-found stem cell helps regenerate lung tissue after acute injury
• Anxiety as a protective factor after a heart attack
• Why premature cell division promotes cancers
• 3-D simulations reveal synergistic mechanisms of the human heart
• Negative childhood experiences can lead people to believe in conspiracy theories
• Sample storage method could improve health care in resource-limited regions
• Genetics or lifestyle: What is it that shapes our microbiome?
• ALS-linked protein's journey into nervous system cells more complex than we thought
• Six decades of cosmology
• Flipside of a dinosaur mystery: 'Bloat-and-float' explains belly-up ankylosaur fossils
• Accelerating studies on carbohydrate biology
• Mapping the neural circuit governing thirst
• Number of people killed by animals each year in the US remains unchanged
• Human dispersion through southern Europe took place less than one million years ago
• Smart heat control of microchips
• Flood risk from American rivers is greatly underestimated
• Growing severity of US firearm injuries requiring hospital admission since early 90s
• Aqueous storage device needs only 20 seconds to go
• Naked-eye detection of solvent vapor
• Newly discovered CRISPR mechanism may help prevent dangerous errors
• The factors that most affect our immune system
• Maize fields entice geese to winter in Denmark
• Lightweight hyperspectral imagers bring sophisticated imaging capability to drones
• Trapping multidrug-resistant bacteria in molecular glue
• Strategic plan for developing a universal influenza vaccine

Comment:
Versus, bake sales for guns and bibles...

Science technology has done more to feed the poor than religion ever could or will do. Religion can do good... but at what cost?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 05:13 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

The medical profession is the bedrock of all science.




You make this **** up as you go along. Only doctors say the Hippocratic oath. You were wrong when you said that all scientists do.

The medical profession is not the bedrock of all science. If there is such a thing that would be Francis Bacon's writings.

Quote:
Francis Bacon, 1st Viscount St Alban,[a] PC KC (/ˈbeɪkən/;[6] 22 January 1561 – 9 April 1626) was an English philosopher, statesman, scientist, jurist, orator, and author. He served both as Attorney General and as Lord Chancellor of England. After his death, he remained extremely influential through his works, especially as philosophical advocate and practitioner of the scientific method during the scientific revolution.

Bacon has been called the father of empiricism. His works argued for the possibility of scientific knowledge based only upon inductive reasoning and careful observation of events in nature. Most importantly, he argued this could be achieved by use of a sceptical and methodical approach whereby scientists aim to avoid misleading themselves. While his own practical ideas about such a method, the Baconian method, did not have a long-lasting influence, the general idea of the importance and possibility of a sceptical methodology makes Bacon the father of scientific method.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Bacon<br />
Notice that Bacon, despite his many accomplishments and professions was never a bloody doctor.

Quote:
Comment:
Versus, bake sales for guns and bibles...


Comment. American centric bullshit. You have cake sales for guns, that's something Americans do, like shoot up school buildings with assault rifles.

Stop assuming America is the World. It isn't, a lot of the religious shgit you have a problem with is uniquely American. Stop tarnishing all other religions by assuming they're all like American ones.

At times you sound quite reasonable, at other times you sound as unhinged and disconnected from reality as Oralloy.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 05:50 am
@TheCobbler,
actually physics is the bedrock. Physics begat math. ALL other sciences including biology derive from the principles of physics and its daughter , math . Medicine, by contrast had its founding in shamanism and myth.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 05:53 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
Nuclear energy can be a clean form of energy but once again the dirty energy conservatives choose to employ the worst forms of nuclear energy to profit from.

In my experience it is the environmental movement that is the greatest obstacle when it comes to nuclear power, not the conservatives.

That said, there is a risk. Nuclear reactors can certainly be built and run safely. But corporations are always fighting to eliminate expensive safety regulations.

Just because we can do it safely doesn't mean we are doing it safely.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 06:08 am
@oralloy,
Quote:

In my experience it is the environmental movement that is the greatest obstacle when it comes to nuclear power, not the conservatives.

Chernobyl is an effective counter to that belief. There was flat little effective environmental monitoring of process an discharge water chemistry to even note the changes that the damn thing was giving off years before.

Fukushima Dayiichi was clearly a violation of reasonable environmental siting criteria. The US, Canad, and Europe, have had much stricter siting criteria and so far so good.


TMI was a silly operations failure, not enviro.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 06:15 am
@farmerman,
I would disagree on the primacy of physics. Me think it's little more than a cliché. Time-wise, astronomy, math, medecine and history were some of the earliest sciences, before physics I think. And biology does not really "derive from the principles of physics". Life has its own laws, e.g. the importance of structure, the primacy of information over matter, which is something people trained in physics often don't understand very well.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 06:24 am
@Olivier5,
math (the concept of formalized quantitation, not mere "counting")was a tool first developed to solve basic physics problems. Theres a course on the fundamental sciences over at Princeton. Its kind of a "circle within a circle" look at where the sciences and applied sciences arose.
derivatives and integrals were developed to solve physics problems in a shorthand manner.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 06:37 am
@Olivier5,
Biology and medicine were, for the earliest days, running as more spiritual nd myth based studies.
If we take the time and explore any particular discipline , Im gonna submit that physics is at the base when it actually BECAME that discipline.

Physics required quantitation and math was then developed to solve these quantitation questions.
A shadoof is the assembly of a weight/counter weight and a fulcrum, and it yields water.

I was a counter-physics believer in yers past but until I took the seminar with Dr Nichols he actually took each discipline and its development and growth and physics came first as a tool for that discipline. Even biology, which derives much of itself from chemistry and observation> ( I do forget how he resolved th input to agriculture as a discipline other than plant hybridization is a result of applied statistics which was a tool developed for determining the actual longest and shortest day lengths at the solstices)
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 5 Mar, 2018 07:20 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
math (the concept of formalized quantitation, not mere "counting")was a tool first developed to solve basic physics problems.

Agricultural problems, rather, and architectoral ones. Eg length and surface computations were first used to measure/establish fields for crops and build stuff.
0 Replies
 
 

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