A Dialogue on the infamous “N” word

@Frank Apisa,

Trying to remember, didn't Richard Pryor use it? He gets to, or I should say got to, in my book.. whether my memory is right or not.

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@ossobuco,

Quote:

Trying to remember, didn't Richard Pryor use it?

Yeah, Osso, he did, as does almost every other black comedian, at some point. They make a lot of jokes (often extremely humorous) revolving around the themes of cultural and perceptual differences between black and whites.

There may well be some white comedians who do it, too. I don't know--I don't watch comedians often.

These taboos on the mere utterance of a word, which, as Arg point out, serve to limit honest discussion of underlying issues, strike me as totally misguided.

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@Frank Apisa,

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Well...the lines of communications definitely failed here, Argome.

I have not said one word about whether or not Black Americans trusts white Americans...not even hinted in that direction. I have no idea at all about why this is coming into this discussion at this point.

I am asking you why you suppose a black person using the "n" word with another black person...is a "dividing mechanism" between the races.

I am glad we are having a more reasonable conversation here, but if you could address that specific, I would appreciate it.

NO, and I am not saying or implying you have said such a thing about Black America not rusting White America. But it is part and parcel of the reason as to why black people uses the n word with another black person.

I don't think you would be interested in a long winded explanation?

It allows black people to belong to an exclusive private club where whites aren't allowed. Though they would never say it is racist... it is.
I know it for a fact. I'm surrounded by it.

I don't know if you are familiar with Espn's Pardon the Interruption?the Black host says his Best friend is his TV partner Tony kornhieser, who is white. Wilbon says it is all right for his Black friend to use the "n" word but not his so called best friend because he is white. I guess that is acceptable for Tony.

It sounds to me as if racism holds all the cards. I guess what I am concern about is the psychology behind it.

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@argome321,

Quote:

It sounds to me as if racism holds all the cards. I guess what I am concern about is the psychology behind it.

Yea, Arg, in your initial post you raised a very good question along these lines which kinda got by-passed. To wit:

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Is that truly a friendship?

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@layman,

I'm on your side of this discussion, while I get argome's.
I'm an older white woman from LA with black family and, in the past, friends from Africa. This doesn't make me any expert, just saying where I'm coming from. My ex and his brother, also whites, were raised in south LA.

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@argome321,

I take that as between them, the line drawing for comfort levels, one being possessive of a word and the other respectful of that.

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@layman,

I guess I'm concern with the reason for adopting the word. I don't think it is as simple as we make it out to be...as some endearing term. I think we need to understand and look as to why we think we need to empower ourselves with this word. Is it because we think by empowering this word that we have stood up to the man?

I'll come back to this

I do not know the British actor in any manner to understand the context of him using the term "Colour People". I do not know how people of Asian and African descent are referred to in the U.K.

What I would be more interested in is how racism and it's trickle down effect has influenced and dictated the culture meme in the U.k.

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This is off topic, so I'll only say it once, as it's another whole story -

I moved from LA in the late nineties, once for a career situation, to very northern california, and later to Albuquerque, New Mexico, where I am now. Both places are very white, that area of northern california more so, though both have many people with native american heritage, and Abq has a lot of people of mexican heritage, or early spanish heritage. In both places, I hardly ever saw/see blacks. It was and is really weird.

Weird. In Eureka, my thirteen year old niece was solicited as a hooker when she was walking my business partner's dog when she had traveled to see me.

My point - distancing by racial criteria is the divisive thing.

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@Frank Apisa,

Frank, what I guess I am trying to say is that this empower this word is symptomatic of a disease. The disease is Racism. When another black person use it when they meet me they don't know if I find it offensive or not. They do it because my skin color is the same as theirs.

"My nigga" they say. They have determine I am such and such before they know me. Isn't that profiling? LOL
I could get into numerous paradigms that would ensue from this scenario. none of which are good.

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@argome321,

Quote:

When another black person use it when they meet me they don't know if I find it offensive or not. They do it because my skin color is the same as theirs.

"My nigga" they say. They have determine I am such and such before they know me.

Yeah, Arg, all said and done it is just as presumptuous to assume that a certain word is NOT offensive as it is to assume that it IS offensive.

That said, despite your reservations about the use of the word, I trust that you don't take any of this as an "insult," because you know that is not the intent.

Of course I really just mean "perceived to be" offensive, since I still don't think any word, in itself, can be either offensive or inoffensive. It all depends on context and intent, as I see it.

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@argome321,

Whites have that same problem...sorta, Argome.

There are whites who think that the use of the word is just fine when among all whites...and use it without regard to whether or not other whites might be offended. Usually it comes up when a joke is being told...where all of a sudden the word is just dropped. Fact is, jokes like that often have Polish or Italians as the punch line...and some of the ugly words for those ethnic groups are used.

I have a lot of Jewish friends...and I notice that they often talk about Jews this...or Jews that. But when I or any other non-Jew is speaking, it is almost required that we work the wording so that the "ish" can be added. Using just Jew...can get a noticeable silent moment or questioning look.

Anyway, I'm gonna concede this one. I don't for one second think that America will be appreciably closer to decent racial relations if blacks stopped using the word as for of camaraderie or solidarity, but I understand the point you and Layman are making.

Done.

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@layman,

Quote:

Yeah, Arg, all said and done it is just as presumptuous to assume that a certain word is NOT offensive as it is to assume that it IS offensive.

That said, despite your reservations about the use of the word, I trust that you don't take any of this as an "insult," because you know that is not the intent.

No, I don't take it as an insult. Not at all. Not any of it. It is the cause of the presumptions that has set these things in motion. It is the conditions and preconditions, in this case racism, that spurn these scenarios and doesn't allow people to get past the racism.

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An observation:

Arg has raised more than one issue in his post. I have been directing my attention to the one emphasized in the post title, i.e., open dialogue.

Frank is addressing another issue raised about the propriety of blacks using the term amongst themselves.

Arg is trying to handle both, but I think his main issue must have been the one Frank is addressing.

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mark

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@argome321,

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It is the conditions and preconditions, in this case racism, that spurn these scenarios and doesn't allow people to get past the racism.

To me there is a difference between being "race conscious" and being "racist." I'm not sure everyone makes that distinction.

Some people will get all belligerent if you even mention that a certain person is white or black: WHY THE HELL SHOULD THAT MATTER, YOU RACIST!?

Just another instance of people trying to portray themselves as more humane, more sensitive, more wise, more insightful; (etc), in short as SUPERIOR human beings, if you ask me.

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@argome321,

Here's one problem with people jumping to a conclusion of "racism" by virtue of the mere utterance of a word:

Mark Twain was opposed to slavery. He wrote "Huck Finn," in part, to show that blacks were humans. Throughout the book "Nigger Jim" shows about 10 times as much compassion, wisdom, and other admirable qualities as most of the whites portrayed in the book.

Yet there have been a number of movements to "ban" Huck Finn from school libraries because it is allegedly "racist"--based on the mere use of "nigger." That kind of rote thinking is quite prevalent today, even if not to that degree (i.e., to the degree of trying to get Twain's books "banned').

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@layman,

Quote:

To me there is a difference between being "race conscious" and being "racist." I'm not sure everyone makes that distinction.

And that is why it is so hard to resolve any of the ethic problems... white, black, etc.

I was trying to write a short story when I was younger. I characterized the woman as having a Hershey sheen to her skin. A friend of mine said I should not have describe her in that manner. when I asked him why he felt uncomfortable about me describing her race. I told him it was no different than describing another character who had Blues eyes and blond hair.

Some people will get all belligerent if you even mention that a certain person is white or black: WHY THE HELL SHOULD THAT MATTER, YOU RACIST!?

Just another instance of people trying to portray themselves as more humane, more sensitive, more wise, more insightful; (etc), in short as SUPERIOR human beings, if you ask me.

For some reason I need or want to understand, but more so I want people to succeed or fail on their own terms...and race should not be an issue. The "N" word if used for a term of endearment is one thing , but it does not stand alone in that idea. It is also representative of separatism. Separatism was something I thought the civil rights movement was suppose to eliminate.

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@argome321,

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It is also representative of separatism.

I agree, Arg, with this exception: I would say it "can be" representative...not that it IS representative... To me there's a significant difference.

In the video I posted, for example, nigga and nigger were both used, by both blacks and whites, without anybody getting offended or claiming they were being "oppressed" by the mere mention of the word.

Know what I'm sayin?

That last black guy, for example, did not use "nigger" as if it only applied to one race. I'm with him. It doesn't have to be used the way it was historically, and, if it is NOT used that way, then it is not. It's a mistake to deny that and say it can ONLY be used in ONE way.

Obviously he did not grow up in the 50's and 60's, so it'a no real surprise, I suppose, that he doesn't see the word in the exact same light as you do.

Did you happen to look at that video interviewing Jason Whitlock that I posted. Among other things, he complained that guys like Sharpton and Jackson were trying to "drag people back into the 50's," while ignoring contemporary problems faced by blacks.

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The original meaning of the word nigger was an already burnt stick (blackened) in the wood pile. It would burn the hottest and brightest of the lot, as it had begun the process of turning into charcoal/coal. The original word nigger may be a derivative of Spanish for black - negro. These origins go back way before black slavery to the days when only whites were slaves.

I have heard people say "sir" with such disrespect and implied insult I think we should ban the word "sir".

Niggers were tanned/brown/dark brown people. Some said it with disrespect, others did not.

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@Ionus,

Quote:

The original word nigger may be a derivative of Spanish for black - negro.

Niggers were tanned/brown/dark brown people. Some said it with disrespect, others did not.

Yeah, Ion, that's my understanding too. It was a neutral term, to begin with, anyway. Many say the word is ultimately derivative from the latin word for "black: " niger."

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I have heard people say "sir" with such disrespect and implied insult I think we should ban the word "sir".

I see we are on the same page here. It's not the word, it's the attitude behind it's useage that may be positive, negative, or neutral.

That said, there's also a subjective side to it. Just because offense "was taken" does not mean that offense "was given," know what I'm sayin?

It wasn't that long ago that it was considered to be an outright insult to call a "colored person" black. Now that useage seems to be virtually mandatory. Things change, eh?

Some seem to consider the (at least formerly) neutral term "Negro" (favored by M. L. King among many others) "derogatory" now, too. Go figure. Who can keep up?

1 Reply

A Dialogue on the infamous “N” word

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