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Islam Can Not be Trusted wth Historical Treasure

 
 
Ionus
 
  2  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2015 10:03 pm
@coldjoint,
I'm debating with a Christian in another thread the exact same literal interpretation of the Bible. The unintelligent and mentally ill can join any religion.
0 Replies
 
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2015 10:07 pm
@Ionus,
Quote:
Lets look at this from a purely objective point of view. What stops the Devil from interfering with the process that God has in mind. Such as recording what we are supposed to do....but God gave us intelligence and a sense of what is right and wrong. That is our main weapons against evil, not parroting verse.


Let's look at from a realistic point of view. These verses are what inspires what I consider evil, and I am certainly not alone. The results are deadly.

Quote:
but God gave us intelligence


Have you paid attention to the education level of terrorist leaders? The majority are highly educated.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Mar, 2015 10:13 pm
@coldjoint,
Quote:
Let's look at from a realistic point of view. These verses are what inspires what I consider evil, and I am certainly not alone. The results are deadly.


I can not argue against that as I believe you are right.

Quote:
Quote:
but God gave us intelligence

Have you paid attention to the education level of terrorist leaders? The majority are highly educated.


Mental illness is most common amongst inteeligent ( and one might presume) educated people. There is also such a thing as being educated beyond your intelligence.
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  2  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 01:24 pm
As I keep saying ISIS and such groups are far far more deadly to Muslims then anyone else.

Quote:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/03/20/3-suicide-bombings-target-shiite-rebel-mosques-in-yemen/25070699/

Suicide bombers killed more than 130 worshipers in two Shiite mosques in Yemen's capital Friday, one of the deadliest attacks in the war-torn nation's history.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 01:41 pm
@BillRM,
Good point BillRM. During the middle ages Islam was basking in wonderful city-states in what is now southern Spain, while the Christians groveled in the mud. It was because Islam had preserved the ancient Greek and Roman science while the Christians repressed or destroyed it. In 1085 the city of Cordoba was overrun by the Christians, and the grand library was discovered with this lost knowledge. From that point, European scholars flocked to Cordoba to study. Three hundred years later the renaissance began. A good book on this subject is James Burke: "The Day the Universe Changed."
coldjoint
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 20 Mar, 2015 02:01 pm
@coluber2001,
Quote:
Good point BillRM. During the middle ages Islam was basking in wonderful city-states in what is now southern Spain,


Revisionist history. Muslims were raping and taking slaves. They had to put down countless uprisings. Look at a real history book.
Quote:

The Umayyad Caliphate (929–1031)

929 – Abd al-Rahman III, faced with the threat of invasion by the Fatimids, proclaims himself Caliph of Córdoba, breaking all ties with the Abbasid Caliphate in Baghdad. Under the reign of Abd al-Rahman III Muslim Al-Andalus reaches its greatest height before its slow decline over the next four centuries.
930 – Over the next 20 years Ramiro II of León, defeats Abd al-Rahman III at Simancas, Osma, and Talavera.
933 – Battle of Osma where Castilian–Leónese troops, under Fernán González of Castile, defeat the Muslim army of Abd al-Rahman III.
939 – Battle of Simancas where Ramiro II of León defeats Abd al-Rahman III. Christians defeat Al-nasir at Alhandega.
Madrid is recaptured from Muslim forces. The encounter between the two rulers finally took place in 939, when, at the so-called ditch of Simancas (Shant Mankus), Ramiro II of León severely defeated the Muslims, and Abd al-Rahman III narrowly escapes with his life. After that defeat Abd al-Rahman III resolved never to take personal charge of another expedition. But Madrid recaptured by Muslims in 940.
953 – Emperor Otto I sends representatives to Córdoba to ask Caliph Abd al-Rahman III to call off some Muslim raiders who had set themselves up in Alpine passes and are attacking merchant caravans going in and out of Italy.
Big Moorish incursion in Galicia.
955 – Ordoño III of León attacks Lisbon.
961 – Al-Hakam II becomes Umayyad Caliph of Córdoba.
974 – A Córdoban expedition under Ibn Tumlus crushes a rebellion in Seville.
976 – Caliph Al-Hakam II dies, and Al-Mansur takes over in the name of his protégé Hisham II, becoming a military dictator usurping caliphal powers and launching a big number of offensive campaigns against the Christians. The Christians take advantage of the resulting confusion and commence raids into Muslim territory.
Al-Mansur sacks Barcelona.
977 – Al-Mansur volunteers to lead the army against the Christians, and is successful.
978 – Leonese forces under Garci Fernández and Ramiro III of León suffer the worst in a string of defeats at San Esteban de Gormaz (Also defeated at Rueda and Torrevicente), eventually leading to the revolt of the Galacian nobles and the abdication of Ramiro in favor of Bermudo II of León.
981 – Al-Mansur defeats his old friend Ghalib in a confused battle near Atienza. Al-Mansur force includes Berbers, Christian mercenaries, and Andalusian troops from Zaragoza under Man ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Tujibi. Ghalib's force includes Andalusians and a Castilian contingent under the Count García Fernandez. Ghalib is killed in the battle. Al-Mansur subsequently kills off both Ibn al-Andalusi and Man ibn Abd al-Aziz al-Tujibi.
981 – Ramiro III of León is defeated by Al-Mansur at Rueda at the Battle of Rueda and is obliged to pay tribute to the Caliph of Córdoba.
983 – After failing in a rebellion in the Maghreb, the Berber Chief Zawi ibn Ziri, of the Tunisian royal family, brings a formidable force of Sanhaja horsemen to join Al-Mansur. However, they are not allowed to cross the straits for many years (sometime 1002–1008).
985 – Under Al-Mansur and subsequently his son, Christian cities are subjected to numerous raids.
985 – Al-Mansur sacks Barcelona.
986 – Al-Mansur burns down the monastery of Sant Cugat del Vallès.
987 – Al-Mansur lays waste to Christian Coimbra.

Al-Mansur seizes the castles north of the Douro River, and arrives at the city of Santiago de Compostela. The city had been evacuated and Al-Mansur burns it to the ground.
Al-Mansur has the basilica doors and bells of the Christian shrine of Santiago de Compostela taken to the Córdoba Mosque and has the rest of the Church destroyed.
988 – Al-Mansur razes León to the ground. He sacks Leon, Zamora, and Sahagun, and sets fire to the great monasteries of Eslonza and Sahagun.
989 – Al-Mansur seizes Osma.
995 – Despite stout resistance by the Beni-Gomez clan – Christian counts of Saldaña, Liébana, Carrión, and Zamora – Al-Mansur destroys their capital, the city of Santa Maria de Carrion.
997 – Under the leadership of Al-Mansur, Muslim forces march out of the city of Córdoba and head north to capture Christian lands.
998 – Wadih, a Slav and the best Andalusian commander of the time, takes Fez in Morocco with a large force.
Muslims briefly attempt to establish a garrison at Zamora.
1000 – Sancho III of Navarre, inflicts major losses on the Muslims, and nearly clinches a remarkable victory.
1000–1033 – Sancho III of Navarre gains control of Aragon and Castile, uniting the three kingdoms. But on his death, he splits the kingdom and leaves Navarre to his son García III of Pamplona, Castile to Fernando I, and Aragon to Ramiro I.
1002 – Al-Mansur raids into La Rioja.
Al-Mansur dies in the village of Salem.
Power in Al-Andalus subsequently divided between the old Arab nobility, the Berber mercenaries, and the Slav slaves.
1002–1008 – Al-Mansur's son Al-Muzaffar conducts annual raids against the Christians.
1003 – Moors lay waste to the city of León.
1008 – On the death of al-Muzaffar, Abd al-Rahman ibn Al-Mansur, another son of Al-Mansur, takes over the role of unofficial ruler. In winter he leads his army against the Christians.
Muhammad II – great-grandson of Abd al-Rahman III – deposes Hisham II as Caliph and destroys Al-Mansur's palace complex of al-Madinat al-Zahira near Córdoba.
Mohammed II al-Mahdi becomes Umayyad Caliph of Córdoba.
The period of anarchy over the next 23 years out of which emerged approximately two dozen taifa states.
1009 – Muslims lay waste to León again.
The Berbers are expelled from Córdoba and set up camp at Calatrava. Their Generals nominate another descendant of Abd al-Rahman III – Sulayman al-Mustain – as a rival Caliph.
Suleiman seeks the aid of Count Sancho García of Castile against Mohammed II of Umayyad. The joint Berber-Castilian army defeats the Arab militia of Muhammad II and sacks Córdoba.
Sulaiman al-Mustain becomes Umayyad Caliph of Córdoba as Suleiman II, after deposing Mohammed II.
The Taifa (independent Moorish kingdom) of Badajoz becomes independent of the Caliph of Córdoba and governs the territory between Coimbra and North Alentejo.


Got tired of accenting the battles.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Muslim_presence_in_the_Iberian_Peninsula
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 01:05 am
Quote:
Islamic State Destruction Renews Debate Over Repatriation of Antiquities
As militants ravage artifacts, a debate has resumed over whether Western collectors should return disputed items to their countries of origin.

http://www.nytimes.com/

I thought of the question first.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 05:09 am
@hawkeye10,
Good excused for keeping "stolen" antiquities however there are only a few areas of the world Muslim or otherwise where such antiquities are in any danger of being harm.

Also the Christian west are not free from such behaviors see how the Nazis are believed to had destroy the Roman Emperor Caligula pleasant barges.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 06:19 am
I dont think we should give anyone back their treasures . What about Greece ? An economic basketcase that should raise concerns as to how safe treasures are there .
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 06:23 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:
Also the Christian west are not free from such behaviors see how the Nazis are believed to had destroy the Roman Emperor Caligula pleasant barges.
The Nemi ships were destroyed during the German Wehrmacht retreat in 1944. (Either by fire from refugees, the German soldiers or the US-attack. - The Museo delle Navi Romane at Nemi, Italy, which was built by Mussolini to house the ships, now holds some remaining artifacts and documentation.)
The list of art destroyed during wars. especially WWI and WWII is long. And involves many nations and religions.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 08:30 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
The list of art destroyed during wars. especially WWI and WWII is long. And involves many nations and religions.


Right once more art being harm is not a Muslim/Islam thing but a human thing.

So picking out a billion members religion and stating that it members as a whole can not be trusted to have historical treasures unlike members of other religions is beyond unreasonable.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 09:37 am
@BillRM,
Arent you aware of the attacks on Museums and historical sites in Morocco, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Libya, and Algiers ? I may have missed some but you get the idea . Muslims are risking their lives to smuggle artwork out of those countries so it wont be destroyed .

Arent you aware of the efforts made to smuggle art away from the Nazis in WW2 and the effort from both sides to protect art from bombing ?

Why do you want to do nothing ?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 4 Apr, 2015 09:54 am
@Ionus,
The Bishop of Chichester on February 9, 1944: "In the fifth year of the war it must be apparent to any but the most complacent and reckless how far the destruction of European culture has already gone. We ought to think once, twice and three times before destroying the rest." (Source: Exhibition in the House of Lords, marking the 50th anniversary of the death of George Bell, Bishop of Chichester, 2008. From the pamphlet: The exhibition is held within a few yards of the spot where, on 9 February 1944, he made his celebrated speech in the House of Lords against the blanket bombing of German cities. Although the speech received very little support at the time, and no support at all from the Government, it can be seen now as having laid the foundation for Anglo-German reconciliation after the war, and as having furnished the moral ideas which inspired the European vision. [© House of Lords publication - UK Parliament, London.2008])
0 Replies
 
 

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