45
   

Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

 
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 9 Aug, 2019 10:27 pm
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:
Where in the Constitution does it say guns have to be cheap to own and maintain

In the Second Amendment.


TheCobbler wrote:
And when a gun someone owns is not secured properly and is used to kill someone else, there should be liability. When parents give guns to minors the parents should be liable!

Don't blame me. It's not my fault that you made gun liability insurance impossible.
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:29 am

https://imgur.com/2ymFLXY.jpg
0 Replies
 
Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:32 am

https://imgur.com/Za4tXq3.jpg
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:40 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

InfraBlue wrote:
I'm referring to measures such as national weapons registries

We already have a registry. All guns made within the past 50 years have a Form 4473 attached to their sale.


That's only for purchases from a Federal Firearms License holder. Private transactions should be registered as well, or outlawed.

oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
and limits on the number of weapons one can own.

What would be the compelling government interest to justify such a limit?


Reducing the levels of guns whould reduce the levels of suicide and homicide rates, and unintentional deaths by firearms.

According to this study, "the increased rate of suicide and homicide in states with high gun levels was accounted for primarily by significantly elevated firearm suicide and firearm homicide rates. Unintentional firearm death rates were also increased in states with more guns. At the regional level, qualitatively similar results were obtained."

oralloy wrote:
It would be interesting to see how hunters react at the voting booth after the left deprives them of some of their hunting rifles.


Their interests are secondary, at best, to the interests of the larger US population.

oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
This fundamental right does not preclude stringent regulation.

That depends on the regulation. The Constitution precludes any measure that cannot pass muster with Strict Scrutiny.


The Second Amendment refers to good regulation. These regulations would be within the Second Amendment's scope.

oralloy wrote:
InfraBlue wrote:
It's much easier to kill with guns than with other weapons.

Is there any evidence to back this up? Knives and baseball bats are pretty effective weapons.


According to this report, "An assault committed with a gun is at least five times more likely to result in death than an assault with a knife."

I don't have stats comparing mortality rates between guns and baseball bats.

oralloy wrote:
Even if it is true, how does a killing with a more-easy weapon make the death any worse than if the killing used a less-easy weapon?


The point isn't that one killing is worse than another. The point is that a killing is more likely to occur during an assult than with less-easy weapons, like knives.
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:42 am
@snood,
snood wrote:

Thing about it is...
Any reasonable person would grant that, regarding citizens having weapons in a civilized society, there has to be agreement that there is a continuum. On one end, anyone can have a slingshot. On the other end, no one can have a nuclear weapon.

The rest of the gun control argument is simply negotiating - to what area on that spectrum can we as citizens be relegated?

What is unreasonable is to assert and insist that there is no discussion to be had, and/or that there should be no regulation of their weaponry.


Given the scope of that continuum, I'd prefer that we as citizens be relegated closer to the side of slingshots.
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:50 am
@InfraBlue,
Me, too. But I felt like I needed to state the range very broadly to (attempt to) capture everyone and mitigate the inane straw man talking points.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 11:52 am
@snood,
Myself I prefer a bow and arrow. To start with I went hunting with a bow and found i couldent hit a barn with it. I think all guns should be removed and replaced with bows. Bet the death rate would go down by 90%.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 01:29 pm
@RABEL222,
Well, I’d like to keep hoping to get an assault rifle ban and a comprehensive background check.
glitterbag
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 01:34 pm
@snood,
How about before we allow someone to buy an assault rifle, we send them to a war zone for 12 months. If they demonstrate good gun hygiene during that time THEN they can have their coveted weapon of war. But only if they get back.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 02:01 pm
@glitterbag,
Well, I’d like to keep hoping for something that could just barely conceivably happen in the present earth reality as we know it - although we’d probably have to have the presidency and the Senate.

That thing about sending the gun nuts to an active theatre of war before they got to own their assault rifle, while undoubtedly an emotionally satisfying fiction, ain’t happenin’ with a liberal POTUS, Congress, and 9 liberals on the SCOTUS.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 03:10 pm
Do you think we’d get some action on gun control legislation if large numbers of young black and Muslim men started (in open carry states)going everywhere with assault rifles slung over their shoulders?
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 03:27 pm
@snood,
In a York Minute
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 04:05 pm
@glitterbag,
thats supposed to be a New York minute.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 07:59 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Reducing the levels of guns would reduce the levels of suicide and homicide rates, and unintentional deaths by firearms.

According to this study, "the increased rate of suicide and homicide in states with high gun levels was accounted for primarily by significantly elevated firearm suicide and firearm homicide rates. Unintentional firearm death rates were also increased in states with more guns. At the regional level, qualitatively similar results were obtained."

The study is incorrect. Firearm availability has very little impact on homicide rates.

Note (limited number of free articles per month, so best viewed in incognito/private browsing mode so no cookies are left in your browser):
http://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between-gun-ownership-and-homicide-1108ed400be5

Your logic is also flawed. The difference between "someone owning guns" versus "someone owning no guns at all" would impact gun accidents and perhaps also suicides. But the difference between a gun owner owning "few guns" or "many guns" will not change suicide rates or the rate of accidental deaths. It only takes a single gun to commit suicide or have an accident.


InfraBlue wrote:
oralloy wrote:
It would be interesting to see how hunters react at the voting booth after the left deprives them of some of their hunting rifles.

Their interests are secondary, at best, to the interests of the larger US population.

I did not refer to their interests, but rather to my curiosity in seeing their reaction at the voting booth.

Many hunters maintain a delusion that the left is not out to get their personal hunting weapons. Shattering their delusions will likely produce results on election day.


InfraBlue wrote:
The Second Amendment refers to good regulation.

The term "well-regulated militia" referred to a militia that had trained to such a degree that they could fight as a single coherent unit instead of fighting as a band of uncoordinated individuals. It didn't refer to rules and guidelines.

That said, restrictions on guns are allowed if they pass muster with Strict Scrutiny.


InfraBlue wrote:
These regulations would be within the Second Amendment's scope.

I see no compelling government interest in limiting the number of guns that one person can own.


InfraBlue wrote:
According to this report, "An assault committed with a gun is at least five times more likely to result in death than an assault with a knife."

I don't have stats comparing mortality rates between guns and baseball bats.

The point isn't that one killing is worse than another. The point is that a killing is more likely to occur during an assult than with less-easy weapons, like knives.

Statistics are clear though that gun availability has little impact on homicide rates:
http://medium.com/handwaving-freakoutery/everybodys-lying-about-the-link-between-gun-ownership-and-homicide-1108ed400be5

This is the same link that I gave above, so it's best viewed in incognito/private browsing mode.

Gun availability does result in a small (emphasis small) uptick in domestic homicides, but it is unclear how many of these homicides are self defense (and are therefore a good thing).
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:04 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:
Given the scope of that continuum, I'd prefer that we as citizens be relegated closer to the side of slingshots.

The Constitution says that people have to be allowed weapons adequate for self defense. And restrictions are only allowed if they can be justified as serving a compelling government interest.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:05 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
Well, I’d like to keep hoping to get an assault rifle ban

I'm not surprised to hear you say that you hope to violate people's civil liberties for fun. The NRA is going to protect America from you however.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:06 pm
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:
How about before we allow someone to buy an assault rifle, we send them to a war zone for 12 months. If they demonstrate good gun hygiene during that time THEN they can have their coveted weapon of war. But only if they get back.

Leftists really do hate the Constitution.

Request denied.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:07 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:
Do you think we’d get some action on gun control legislation if large numbers of young black and Muslim men started (in open carry states)going everywhere with assault rifles slung over their shoulders?

No. We are going to remain a free country no matter what the left does.
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:23 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
Leftists really do hate the Constitution.

Request denied.


Have you ever had to face imminent death by warfare or gun violence?

oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Aug, 2019 08:44 pm
@neptuneblue,
Maybe. Maybe not. Why does it matter?
 

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