Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

@MontereyJack,

The left's actions don't match your claims about their goals. Banning pistol grips on rifles is not about trying to save lives. It is just designed to violate people's civil liberties for fun.

The left also don't have the power to do whatever they want. We have the power to stop them cold. I'd have thought they would have learned their lesson after the 2013 gun control debacle destroyed Obama's second term and got Trump elected. But we can deliver catastrophic defeats to the left as many times as we need to.

As far as "doing something" goes, I'll support HR 8 if it is amended to require the government to conduct all background checks within 24 hours.

I'll support a red flag law (presuming it has adequate due process) if it is tied to the Veterans 2nd Amendment Protection Act.

I'll stand neutral on placing high capacity magazines under the National Firearms Act if the measure is tied to concealed carry reciprocity, and if it does not touch assault weapons.

No on HR 1112 however. HR 1112 is just full of bad.

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@MontereyJack,

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We want to disarm the killers, mass killers or plain old garden variety killers, whatever it takes.

It's already been pointed out that none of the mass shootings would have been stopped by any of the laws the left proposes.

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The right is prevenyting any steps to that aim. That means the right is coming down on the side of death. That is the plain and simple truth.

That isn't the case, the Right has different idea's from yours. We would like to see an end to "gun free zones". Unarmed people are targets for the wacko's. There are many states who have overly strict carry conceal laws, to the point where you have to know someone in the local govt to get approved. We have said that they should be changed from "may offer" to "shall offer". This would increase the number of people who are available to stop a shooter should they show up. These are just a few examples of the laws the Right has pushed for. The Left wants to move in the opposite direction and remove guns from society, you have already said as much several times.

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If you don't like gun control, come upp with something that works,

You seem to think gun control is working? Tell me again how Chicago has the equilivant of a mass shooting every week?

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or we will do whatever it takes, no matter whether or not the gun zealots don't like it.

Spoken like a true authoritarian fascist. That's the problem with the left, it always slides towards authoritarianism and dictatorship.

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Look at the polls.

I don't care about the polls, a majority of the US public doesn't understand current gun laws, and the media lies to them about them anyways.

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The large majority of the country supports stricter gun laws.

That large majority doesn't understand current gun laws or even guns themselves. This constant lie about "assault rifles" is pushing the debate. The lack of good info passed along to the public is leading them to making stupid choices they don't understand.

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2020 is coming uo, and your side lost badly in 2018 and you've just allowed the situation to get worse, and the country get more and more pissed off at it.

Sorry, but the GOP didn't loose badly, they had less loss of seats in the House than Obama saw in the 2010 mid-term elections. This is more of the BS spin pushed by the leftist media, in fact the GOP won seats in the Senate and gained more of a majority. It wasn't the shellacking of 2010, not even close.

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@Baldimo,

Baldimo wrote:

Tell me again how Chicago has the equilivant of a mass shooting every week?

I would have thought that some weapons are ordered at gun shops outside city, county and state boundaries.
You certainly have sources that all those guns were bought in Chicago, I suppose.

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@Walter Hinteler,

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I would have thought that some weapons are ordered at gun shops outside city, county and state boundaries.

It depends on the source you read. Several years ago, the Chicago Sun released an investigation on where guns were bought. At that time the majority of the guns came from IL. I just read another article in the last few months that says the guns are coming from Indiana, the state next door. Either way, only the South and West sides of Chicago see the violence problems, and Indiana doesn't have the same extreme violence that Chicago does.

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You certainly have sources that all those guns were bought in Chicago, I suppose.

I went looking for the articles and they are behind pay walls now. I can get the links but they won't work well.
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2017/10/29/18341083/gun-trace-report-details-origins-of-chicago-guns-possible-solutions

https://chicago.suntimes.com/news/2015/3/26/18565028/sun-times-investigation-chicago-gangs-don-t-have-to-go-far-to-buy-guns

The point is that Chicago has very strict gun laws and some of the highest murder rates in the country, if you only count the south and west sides where all the violence is. Chicago's population keeps the percentage low, but you can't argue with over 500 murders per year.

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@Baldimo,

We have stricter gun laws than any place in the USA here in Germany. And yet we get crimes with guns, mainly owned illegally.
You get guns illegally either from internally working "dealers", the darknet, local/regional criminals or just alter legal weapons.

In Chicago, it's easier:

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via WP

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@Baldimo,

So you are advocating stopping all gun sales?

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@Walter Hinteler,

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According to the FBI, roughly 60% of guns used in crimes in Illinois were from out of state. The overwhelming number of those guns flow into Illinois from states that have much less restrictive gun laws. Most of those out of state guns came from Indiana, which is next to Illinois. Second place goes to Mississippi and third place goes to Wisconsin. The FBI data suggests that there’s lots of trafficking of guns within Illinois but point out that it’s very difficult to trace those guns once they get into the state because Illinois does not require registration of guns, does not license or regulate gun dealers, doesn’t limit how many guns can be sold at one time and does not require background searches on gun sales that are not conducted at a gun show. Indiana has really lax gun laws. Gun dealers are required to perform a very basic background search while a vendor can sell their “private collection” to anyone at a gun show without any background search whatsoever. So someone can buy an assault rifle at a Crown Point Indiana gun show without any background search, and drive an hour into Chicago, where assault rifles are banned. A 2015 study by the University of Chicago suggested that only 11% of guns involved in crimes in Chicago were purchased through federally licensed gun dealers, which require background searches. In 2014 the Chicago Police reported that roughly 60% of guns used and recovered from crime scenes between 2009 and 2013 were purchased outside of Illinois. Exact figures are hard to pin down but it is clear that the vast majority of guns making their way to the streets of Chicago are coming from outside of Illinois.

Chicago Criminal Lawyer Blog

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@RABEL222,

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So you are advocating stopping all gun sales?

Not even close, I believe in the Constitution and our freedoms. If Chicago has a problem with violence, that's Chicago's problem, they should loosen their gun laws so innocent people can defend themselves from the dirt bags. People in neighboring states shouldn't have their rights ended because the people of west and south side of Chicago can't control themselves.

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@Walter Hinteler,

This is pretty much what I said and what the articles said that I shared.

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@TheCobbler,

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I think Rabel meant pervacator which is a word, look it up, describes you to a tee.

I checked the word you tried to use, and it doesn't exist, just like Rabels word didn't exist. I hope you both realize that there is a spell checker built into most internet browsers...

This is what google came back with:
pervacator
Did you mean:
prevaricator, provocateur, pervorator

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@Baldimo,

The gun violence in Chicago is mostly between gun owners. Innocent people get caught in these gun owners' violence.

Much more restrictive, nationally instituted gun ownership laws are required to bring down gun violence.

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@InfraBlue,

You are not too clear about what you mean by much more restrictive. But we're talking about a fundamental right here. Restrictions are only allowed if they can be justified with a good reason. And restrictions are not allowed to be so draconian that they impede people's ability to defend themselves.

Why does it matter whether someone is killed with a gun versus killed with some other weapon?

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https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/67825705_2536203879732673_7434923714652667904_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&_nc_oc=AQmWx6a_w-fGhVQR-IGJzX41-JIo1HgSX2ebcKm9SsUdS_ytvlkoNWxi4-M7i15p6A9En9pbQNRZjW5U_WPKUqXv&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=7548bfcc76736f77509cf2fb7b41b226&oe=5DD6E455

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@oralloy,

I'm referring to measures such as national weapons registries and limits on the number of weapons one can own.

This fundamental right does not preclude stringent regulation.

It's much easier to kill with guns than with other weapons.

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@InfraBlue,

I agree InfraBlue...

One has take a written and driving test to drive a moped or motor bike, one has to take an ever bigger test to operate a motor vehicle on the highways. and an ever bigger test to drive a semitrailer... One also has to have costly liability insurance...

The same should be applied to guns, no guns should be sold without a written exam...

The bigger the guns the more one has to prove they are qualified to own one.

Even so people still have motor vehicle accidents but a lot fewer than if testing and exams were not administered...

Some people with poor eyesight or impaired motor skills cannot obtain a drivers license and some people should be likewise disqualified on various criterion when trying to purchase a gun of any kind...

Training with guns would certainly save a lot of lives from accidental misuse but then again there would be a lot more republican voters and their kids still alive... Hard call that one. (cynical)

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@Baldimo,

The racist whities in our government (compliments of the NRA) drop loads of free guns off in predominantly black neighborhoods so blacks will shoot each other up and then they can point a finger at black people and say look they are inferior to us whities, black on black crime and such and such. While in drug ridden white neighborhoods people are dropping like flies overdosing on drugs of every kind, emergency rooms are overflowing to full capacity with white people flipping their brains out on drugs... This is worse that black on black crimes, this is suicide by overdosing...

Ex Chicago Gang Member Says They Are Dropping Guns In The Hood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mhPZ6Oel8uk

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@InfraBlue,

InfraBlue wrote:

I'm referring to measures such as national weapons registries

We already have a registry. All guns made within the past 50 years have a Form 4473 attached to their sale.

InfraBlue wrote:

and limits on the number of weapons one can own.

What would be the compelling government interest to justify such a limit?

It would be interesting to see how hunters react at the voting booth after the left deprives them of some of their hunting rifles.

InfraBlue wrote:

This fundamental right does not preclude stringent regulation.

That depends on the regulation. The Constitution precludes any measure that cannot pass muster with Strict Scrutiny.

InfraBlue wrote:

It's much easier to kill with guns than with other weapons.

Is there any evidence to back this up? Knives and baseball bats are pretty effective weapons.

Even if it is true, how does a killing with a more-easy weapon make the death any worse than if the killing used a less-easy weapon?

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@TheCobbler,

TheCobbler wrote:

One also has to have costly liability insurance...

It would be unconstitutional to require liability insurance for gun ownership after you've already made it impossible to get liability insurance.

It would also be unconstitutional to require anything costly for gun ownership.

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@oralloy,

Yes so costly, why no just drop them off for free in black neighborhoods?

More guns is always the republican solution to crime and murder isn't it. Now take a look at Chicago... Did more guns work there? Why the hell would it work in our schools and everywhere else? Why not just drop exotic guns off at every school too?

Where in the Constitution does it say guns have to be cheap to own and maintain and shouldn't require REGULATION?

And when a gun someone owns is not secured properly and is used to kill someone else, there should be liability. When parents give guns to minors the parents should be liable!

So it should be as cheap as possible for crazies to shoot up a Walmart because anything less would infringe on their constitutional right?

You should really listen to your damned fool nonsense self.

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@InfraBlue,

Thing about it is...
Any reasonable person would grant that, regarding citizens having weapons in a civilized society, there has to be agreement that there is a continuum. On one end, anyone can have a slingshot. On the other end, no one can have a nuclear weapon.

The rest of the gun control argument is simply negotiating - to what area on that spectrum can we as citizens be relegated?

What is unreasonable is to assert and insist that there is no discussion to be had, and/or that there should be no regulation of their weaponry.

1 Reply

Turning The Ballot Box Against Republicans

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