Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 06:11 am
The less said about this...the better.

Very short...but enjoyable.

It had to happen!


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Type: Discussion • Score: 19 • Views: 10,039 • Replies: 146

 
edgarblythe
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 06:30 am
New England would have won that game even if they had to use watermelons for balls.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 10:32 am
@edgarblythe,
True, but they cheated anyway, like Nixon in the 72 election. The funniest part is watching Brady say he didn't notice anything. Here is a guy who handles footballs everyday, all day saying he didn't notice anything when a defensive back noticed it immediately upon catching it and called it to the attention of the refs.
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 10:35 am
@engineer,
For the record, Engineer, we don't have the facts yet. It is a bit premature to say "they cheated" until we hear the result of the investigation.

edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 10:36 am
I don't condone cheating. If they get to the bottom of it, the guilty ought to be banned from football for a few games at least.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 10:42 am
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

True, but they cheated anyway, like Nixon in the 72 election. The funniest part is watching Brady say he didn't notice anything. Here is a guy who handles footballs everyday, all day saying he didn't notice anything when a defensive back noticed it immediately upon catching it and called it to the attention of the refs.


The '72 election Nixon overkill is what I have been using to describe it.

But the video is cute.

If they find evidence that cheating actually occurred...they ought to throw the book at them. But there is still the possibility that the temperature was the culprit. Apparently Brady always asks for the balls to be at the absolutely soft limit. Maybe the cold did to the ball what it sometimes does to car tires...and the same thing did not happen to the Colts because they do not keep the ball to the bottom limit.


Should be interesting.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 10:47 am
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I don't condone cheating. If they get to the bottom of it, the guilty ought to be banned from football for a few games at least.


Really? That seems a little harsh for a couple of PSI. Did you have the same reaction to the Pine Tar incident? I don't think anyone would be making such a big deal over what, even if true, is a minor infraction if it weren't the Patriots.

The Patriots won this game 45-7 by deflating the Colts defense (largely with the running game). The inflation of the footballs had little to do with this.

engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 10:54 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Sources earlier this season told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that the Colts had concerns about underinflated balls after their regular-season game against the visiting Patriots on Nov. 16.

During that game, Colts safety Mike Adams twice intercepted Tom Brady and gave the balls to the Colts' equipment manager to save -- and both times there were concerns about the balls feeling underinflated, sources told Schefter.

Those sources said the Colts raised concerns to the league, which was aware of the issue going into this weekend's AFC title game.


True, but we're not in a court here and here are the key data points.
1) The Colts made this observation about the Patriots before. Not other teams, not just this game.
2) 11 of 12 balls were flagged. This is not one leaker.
3) The balls were inspected by refs 2hr, 15min before game time and passed.
4) All the Colts balls passed all checks. They didn't deflate with time.
5) Belichick is famously detail oriented saying:
Quote:
With regard to footballs, I’m sure that any current or past player of mine would tell you that the balls we practice with are as bad as they can be: wet, sticky, cold, slippery, however bad we can make them, I make them.

but his team is putting out of regulation footballs in play and he knows nothing.
6) Brady is a world class quarterback but says he didn't notice anything:

From SI.com
Quote:
Brady, the Patriots’ quarterback, wants us to believe that:

Before games, like most quarterbacks, he makes sure the footballs meet his precise specifications. He likes them to have 12.5 pounds of pressure per square inch. Presumably, he also likes them worked in so they are not too shiny, too slippery, too waxy, or covered in maple syrup. Then -- he made this point multiple times Thursday -- he doesn’t want anybody touching them. They’re perfect the way they are.

And yet, during the first half of the Patriots’ AFC Championship win over the Colts, Brady was playing with balls that were well under his preferred 12.5 pounds of PSI. At least 11 of the 12 were under-inflated.

But guess what? He didn’t notice. He had nothing to do with it. He has no idea how it happened. Maybe a manager did it on his own, maybe there was a porcupine in the ball bag. But Brady -- Tom Brady, the same extremely competitive, detail-oriented man who helped lobby the league to allow quarterbacks to supply their own footballs -- didn’t notice they were under-inflated.

Then, at the start of the second half, Brady started using new footballs that were properly inflated and he said he didn't notice the difference.


OK, so I'm not a lawyer demanding a certain level of proof, I'm an engineer and when seeking to solve a problem, I form hypotheses to explain the observations. All the hypotheses I'm left with are intentional, possibly systemic ball modification.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 11:02 am
@maxdancona,
I don't think cheating is a minor infraction, but if the NFL finds that the balls were underinflated, then since this is a first time infraction for Brady (not counting spy gate since he really didn't own that one) a one game suspension would probably send the right message.
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 11:04 am
@engineer,
From the same Sports Illustrated article.

Quote:
The New England Patriots cheated. Reasonable people understand this. Eleven out of 12 (or possibly 12 of 12) footballs do not get deflated like that by accident. (The Colts’ footballs did not deflate like that, so please send your angry “it was the elements!” e-mails to the Weather Channel. Nobody else wants to read them.)

What the Patriots did in their romp of the Colts is the very definition of cheating: altering the game to give yourself an unfair advantage. I know some people in the sport who think it’s a large advantage. Maybe you think it’s a small advantage. But it is still cheating.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 12:13 pm
@maxdancona,
The pine tar incident missed me. Can't object if you are oblivious, dude.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 12:50 pm
@engineer,
Deflating the football does NOT give one a unfair advantage. If the QB passes the ball, the defender needs to defend the pass. If the QB hands the ball off, the defense needs to tackle the runner.

Indy did too little of each and not enough when THEY had the ball which is why their balls did not deflate during the game.

Only over-inflating the kicking ball would provide a "unfair" advantage.

Common sense folks !!
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 01:06 pm
@woiyo,
The NFL has rules specifying the range of inflation of the football. Operating outside of that range apparently gives a team either an advantage or disadvantage.

Tom Brady wants his footballs to be inflated as little as possible (supposedly within that range)...so he must consider an under inflated ball to be an advantage.

I am going to accept the judgement of the NFL and Tom Brady over yours, Woiyo.

Just common sense!
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 01:15 pm
@engineer,
Where in the rules does it say that under-inflated balls result in a one game suspension?
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 01:30 pm
Digest of Rules Main
Unfair Acts
Commissioner’s Authority
The Commissioner has sole authority to investigate and to take appropriate disciplinary or corrective measures if any club action, nonparticipant interference, or emergency occurs in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game.
No Club Protests
The authority and measures provided for in this section (UNFAIR ACTS) do not constitute a protest machinery for NFL clubs to dispute the result of a game. The Commissioner will conduct an investigation under this section only to review an act or occurrence that he deems so unfair that the result of the game in question may be inequitable to one of the participating teams. The Commissioner will not apply his authority under this section when a club registers a complaint concerning judgmental errors or routine errors of omission by game officials. Games involving such complaints will continue to stand as completed.

Penalties for Unfair Acts

The Commissioner’s powers under this section (UNFAIR ACTS) include the imposition of monetary fines and draft choice forfeitures, suspension of persons involved, and, if appropriate, the reversal of a game’s result or the rescheduling of a game, either from the beginning or from the point at which the extraordinary act occurred. In the event of rescheduling a game, the Commissioner will be guided by the procedures specified above ("Procedures for Starting and Resuming Games" under EMERGENCIES). In all cases, the Commissioner will conduct a full investigation, including the opportunity for hearings, use of game videotape, and any other procedures he deems appropriate.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 01:37 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
in an NFL game which he deems so unfair or outside the accepted tactics encountered in professional football that such action has a major effect on the result of a game.


He He He

0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 02:03 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Correct. Brady likes his footballs softer that does Aaron who stated he like his inflated to the max. Each QB has the luxury to set the inflation level within the NFL guidelines.

I see no conspiracy here only hyper-ventilation from losers like the Ravens and Colts.

Let's consider a ball blown to the minimum level. After rushing the ball for almost 200 yards in a game and getting a pounding by those trying to tackle the running back, is it conceivable a ball might deflate a bit? When a QB passes for almost 300 years and balls getting crushed by an offensive lineman who scores a TD on a pass, the ball might deflate a bit?

As stated, if the Colts actually had any offense, maybe their balls might have deflated a bit.

Common sense to me. And I await to see if the NFL will actually investigate this "thoroughly".

NOTE: I am a Giants Fan so I have no dog in this fight.
Frank Apisa
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 02:41 pm
@woiyo,
woiyo wrote:

Correct. Brady likes his footballs softer that does Aaron who stated he like his inflated to the max. Each QB has the luxury to set the inflation level within the NFL guidelines.

I see no conspiracy here only hyper-ventilation from losers like the Ravens and Colts.

Let's consider a ball blown to the minimum level. After rushing the ball for almost 200 yards in a game and getting a pounding by those trying to tackle the running back, is it conceivable a ball might deflate a bit? When a QB passes for almost 300 years and balls getting crushed by an offensive lineman who scores a TD on a pass, the ball might deflate a bit?

As stated, if the Colts actually had any offense, maybe their balls might have deflated a bit.

Common sense to me. And I await to see if the NFL will actually investigate this "thoroughly".

NOTE: I am a Giants Fan so I have no dog in this fight.


I also am a Giants fan, Woiyo...and have been since 1958 when Jim Lee Howell was their coach. There are Giants banners in every room of our house...and Giants memorabilia on many flat surfaces.

But I was not talking about that...nor have I suggested in any way that there was a conspiracy to cheat.

I was talking about your comments:

1) Deflating the football does NOT give one a unfair advantage.

2) Only over-inflating the kicking ball would provide a "unfair" advantage.


Tom Brady thinks deflating the football does give an advantage. Since the NFL rules dictate that the football not be above OR BELOW a particular psi, apparently the NFL thinks deflating the football to below 12.5 psi gives an UNFAIR advantage.

On that matter, I take their word over yours.

The NFL does not think as you do that only over-inflating the kicking ball would provide an "unfair" advantage. They, and Tom Brady think deflating the football to below 12.5 psi does also.

On that matter, I take their word over yours. Common sense dictates that I do so.

In any case, I doubt that the outcome of that game was significantly impacted by the pressure of the balls.

But as I said, if it is proved that cheating did occur...I hope the commissioner throws the book at the Patriots. They've earned it.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 02:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Wait 'til next year.

http://content.sportslogos.net/logos/7/166/full/930.gif
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 03:11 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Laughing Drunk
0 Replies
 
 

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