18
   

Is History an art or a science?

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 10:48 am
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
I think the problem there is that Wissenschaft means both "science" and a "field of knowledge" in German. For instance, Geisteswissenschaft could be translated as "spiritual science," but the idea that theology or philosophy, which fit under that category, are sciences is rather farfetched.
It could be that those two meanings make it difficult (similar Bauer, which means farmer as well as peasant [→ farmers have taken part as well in the "peasant revolt"]).

Geisteswissenschaften is everything which isn't Naturwissenschaftenten.
The early conception of the Geisteswissenschaften came from the pairs of opposites 'spirit - nature', 'history - natural science', 'understanding - telling'. While the science tried to explain the nature due to eternal laws, they saw it as a task of a historically oriented spiritual science to understand the spiritual life of gone civilisations in their uniqueness.

Nowadays, history is predominately seen as part of Kulturwissenschaften ("culture sciences").
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 11:19 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Kulturwissenschaften ("culture sciences").

Called "social sciences" in English and indiferently "sciences humaines" or "sciences sociales" in French. Same movement.

Would you say that the "scientification" (constitution into sciences) of the old "letters" or "humanities" started in Germany? To my knowledge, in France the process started at the turn of the century, in the wake of positivism. For instance Émile Durkheim (founded sociology) and Ferdinand de Saussure (a Swiss, founded linguistics) wrote end of 19th-early 20th. Did this trend start sooner in Germany? Some previous post of yours hinted at that.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 12:35 pm
@Olivier5,
More importantly, I read the last chapter and the butler did it. Spoiler Alert!
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 01:05 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Called "social sciences" in English and indiferently "sciences humaines" or "sciences sociales" in French. Same movement.
"Social sciences" is Sozialwissenschaften in German/Germany.

But it really sounds different in English - I usually don't look at the English websites of any German university, but now ... from the Paderborn university, close to where I live: Fakultät für Kulturwissenschaften - Faculty of Arts and Humanities.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 01:15 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:
Would you say that the "scientification" (constitution into sciences) of the old "letters" or "humanities" started in Germany? To my knowledge, in France the process started at the turn of the century, in the wake of positivism. For instance Émile Durkheim (founded sociology) and Ferdinand de Saussure (a Swiss, founded linguistics) wrote end of 19th-early 20th. Did this trend start sooner in Germany? Some previous post of yours hinted at that.
It did start here with Wilhelm von Humboldt in the early 19th century in history - in other academic fields it's like you wrote above.
However, since about 20 years, suddenly everything becomes "-wissenschaft" here. I taught (part-time) "Methods of Social Work" (Methoden der Sozialarbeit). That is now "Social Work Sciences" (Sozialarbeitswissenschaft) ...
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 05:33 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Interesting that it started earlier for history in Germany. If one looks at Michelet in France, the same pattern emerges: a historian doing the first step, almost a century before the other social sciences. I wonder why; perhaps just because history is a very old discipline... Also curious about when / if this movement happened in the UK.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 05:41 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter, Isn't there a Humboldt University in Berlin?
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Jan, 2015 11:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
This university got its name to honour Wilhelm and his brother, geographer Alexander von Humboldt
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2015 06:12 am
@Walter Hinteler,
I've been reading about Humboldt. Fascinating character... And a linguist (rather than an historian, as I first thought when you brought up his name). I can't figure why he is not better known in France.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2015 08:44 am
@Olivier5,
Humboldt did some researches about the Basque language - valid even today.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Thu 22 Jan, 2015 12:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes, saw that. He's on my read list alright. My info base on this shift from letters to sciences is sorely lacking in perspectives from other nations. I'm too narrowly influenced by french authors, eg Braudel and co.
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  8  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 05:31 am
******* antisemite.
Olivier5
 
  5  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 07:08 am
@bobsal u1553115,
bobsal u1553115 wrote:

******* antisemite.

Don't even think about it. Pamela has crabs.
0 Replies
 
FBM
 
  4  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 07:26 am
It's sad that someone's life experiences have been so bad that they feel such a strong compulsion to spread blind hate.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 04:35 pm
@FBM,
Yes, very sad... We should all tell Pamela how much we love her, even though we are all Jewish of course. Love heals all wounds.
ossobuco
 
  2  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 06:00 pm
@Olivier5,
I'm jewish by much sexual congress.
This has made me smarter and happier.
I admit this isn't a scientific theory.
On Pamela, I haven't looked at her posts for many years.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 23 Jan, 2015 06:23 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I'm jewish by much sexual congress. This has made me smarter and happier.

Here you go. Pam just needs a little Jew love.

Quote:
On Pamela, I haven't looked at her posts for many years.

You haven't missed anything.
0 Replies
 
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 31 Jan, 2015 04:15 pm
If we could read the present any better then we do read the past then this debate might had something interesting to say. But as expected is just an empty shallow pissing contest with some cosmetic enlightenment to ease on the winter nights.

People talk about objects, rarely about realities...
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Sun 1 Feb, 2015 11:07 am
@Fil Albuquerque,
I actually believe it's both
0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  3  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2015 07:15 am
Race baiting anti-Semite.

Why is this racist crap allowed to be posted here?
 

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