18
   

Is History an art or a science?

 
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 04:26 pm
I don't have a copy of Popper's Logik der Forschung anywhere near me, but Wikipedia's article on Falsifiability sounds like a good summary of the issue, as I remember Popper presenting it.

Wikipedia wrote:
In work beginning in the 1930s, Popper gave falsifiability a renewed emphasis as a criterion of empirical statements in science.

Popper noticed that two types of statements are of particular value to scientists.

The first are statements of observations, such as "there is a white swan." Logicians call these statements singular existential statements, since they assert the existence of some particular thing. They are equivalent to a predicate calculus statement of the form: There exists an x such that x is a swan, and x is white.

The second are statements that categorize all instances of something, such as "all swans are white". Logicians call these statements universal. They are usually parsed in the form: For all x, if x is a swan, then x is white. Scientific laws are commonly supposed to be of this type. One difficult question in the methodology of science is: How does one move from observations to laws? How can one validly infer a universal statement from any number of existential statements?

Unlike physics and chemistry, history has not yet discovered any universal statements, except false ones. ("Communism will triumph by the year 2000!") And I suppose that makes history a less accomplished science. But historians can still make singular factual statements such as "Adam Lincoln lived from 1809 to 1865", check them for their truth, and collect the ones that prove true. Sciences can't make universal statements that are unfalsifiable, but they have no duty to contain any universal statements at all.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 04:31 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
And that convinces me that Popper wouldn't (or shouldn't) have included history as a social science. After all, history doesn't attempt to predict anything.

His point is precisely that it would be unscientific to pretend we can predict anything (according to Popper, the future cannot be predicted). Biologists don't try to predict the future, and historians shouldn't either, if they want to be scientific.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 04:33 pm
@Olivier5,
Observation is good. I worked in an immunology lab (blah, blah) and one sunny day (actually an indoor day, no windows) something was wrong and the disturbing observation turned out to be a new cytokine in action, once understood, or better phrased, new to our knowledge.

But that's the deal. Further testing continued. Testing is a key word in science as we now understand it.

When I dropped psych as a major (in the early '60's), it was because I thought it was too sloppy.
Not that I was so good at science, but that sloppiness in the name of science bothered me.

Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 04:36 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
I'm using the term "verification" in the common, everyday manner, not in the specialized, Popperian manner.

No, I don't think you are. When I look up verification, Webster passes the buck to its entry on verifying. And according to that entry, the common, everyday manner of using the word "verify" is "to prove, show, find out, or state that (something) is true or correct". It's your usage that is specialized and idiosyncratic, Popper's that is common and everyday-like.

joefromchicago wrote:
In any event, for Popper, "verification" was far less important than "falsification," because, whereas a falsified empirical claim was always false, a verified empirical claim could only ever be provisionally true.

Yes, that is true for universal statements like "all swans are white". But to the extent that a science states singular observations ("this swan is white", "this president lived from 1809 to 1865"), I don't think the distinction matters much.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 04:37 pm
@Thomas,
Who's Adam Lincoln? Laughing
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 04:45 pm
@ossobuco,
There is no debate that SOME social science is sloppy science, but to me the whole edifice of 'social sciences' -- the historic academic project, early to mid 20th century, to recast entire domains of the old 'humanities' or 'letters' as sciences, and what progress this has led to in linguistics, sociology, economy, etc. -- doesn't need to come down just because of a few mistaken researchers.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:00 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Who's Adam Lincoln? Laughing

The twin brother who was forced to wear an iron mask all his life... No, wait. That's Adam the 14th.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:03 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
Unlike physics and chemistry, history has not yet discovered any universal statements, except false ones. ("Communism will triumph by the year 2000!")

Two problems with that: (1) the statement "Communism will triumph by the year 2000" is not a historical statement (unless from a post-2000 perspective); and (2) as I mentioned above, historical facts aren't history, any more so than noting that neon is a noble gas is chemistry. Someone correctly noting Lincoln's birth date isn't practicing history. Again, this verges on the fallacy of equivocation.

Thomas wrote:
And I suppose that makes history a less accomplished science.

It says nothing whatsoever about history.

Thomas wrote:
But historians can still make singular factual statements such as "Adam Lincoln lived from 1809 to 1865", check them for their truth, and collect the ones that prove true. Sciences can't make universal statements that are unfalsifiable, but they have no duty to contain any universal statements at all.

What you're talking about isn't history, it's trivia.

But you're familiar with the scientific method, so tell me: how would you go about falsifying (in the Popperian sense) the following claims?

-- the presence or absence of phlogiston in a substance explains combustion

-- George W. Bush was the greatest US president in history
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:08 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
No, I don't think you are. When I look up verification, Webster passes the buck to its entry on verifying. And according to that entry, the common, everyday manner of using the word "verify" is "to prove, show, find out, or state that (something) is true or correct". It's your usage that is specialized and idiosyncratic, Popper's that is common and everyday-like.

I use the term in the Merriam-Webster sense. Is that idiosyncratic?

Thomas wrote:
Yes, that is true for universal statements like "all swans are white". But to the extent that a science states singular observations ("this swan is white", "this president lived from 1809 to 1865"), I don't think the distinction matters much.

But, as you observe above, Popper really didn't care about those kinds of statements. And with good reason. Isolated scientific facts don't constitute science, just as isolated historical facts don't constitute history.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:09 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

His point is precisely that it would be unscientific to pretend we can predict anything (according to Popper, the future cannot be predicted). Biologists don't try to predict the future, and historians shouldn't either, if they want to be scientific.

Who said historians want to be scientific?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:14 pm
@Olivier5,
That's interesting, I'll listen, somewhat.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:20 pm
@Olivier5,
My major was bacteriology and I got out with a Bachelor of Arts. They were picky in my day.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 05:24 pm
@Olivier5,
My major was bacteriology and we got out with a Bachelor of Arts. They were picky in my day.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 06:20 pm
@joefromchicago,
Quote:
Who said historians want to be scientific?

Quite a few historians:

Quote:
A major trend of historical methodology in the 20th century was a tendency to treat history more as a social science rather than as an art, which traditionally had been the case. Some of the leading advocates of history as a social science were a diverse collection of scholars which included Fernand Braudel, E. H. Carr, Fritz Fischer, Emmanuel Le Roy Ladurie, Hans-Ulrich Wehler, Bruce Trigger, Marc Bloch, Karl Dietrich Bracher, Peter Gay, Robert Fogel, Lucien Febvre and Lawrence Stone. [...]

In opposition to the claims of history as a social science, historians such as Hugh Trevor-Roper, John Lukacs, Donald Creighton, Gertrude Himmelfarb and Gerhard Ritter argued that the key to the historians' work was the power of the imagination, and hence contended that history should be understood as an art.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History

neologist
 
  2  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 06:33 pm
@Olivier5,
I'll have to go with Joe on this:
Science relies on scientific method;
Observation
Test
Hypothesis
Test
Theory
Test
Etc.
Historical studies rely on no such discipline.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 06:45 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

My major was bacteriology and I got out with a Bachelor of Arts. They were picky in my day.

In the end, there's no right or wrong answer. History could be a bit of both (art and science). There's no reason why these categories should be exclusive.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 06:50 pm
@neologist,
Observation, hypothesis, or even theory can be part of the historians toolbox. Only testing is out.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 06:55 pm
@Olivier5,
I agree on that and just wrote a blurb to that point that I decided to wait on.

I'll add that I'm made afraid by what I take as humanities losses.

Money, honey.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 07:15 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Who said historians want to be scientific?

Quite a few historians:

Poor deluded souls.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Jan, 2015 07:21 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Who said historians want to be scientific?

Quite a few historians:

Poor deluded souls.

Says who?
 

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