17
   

Why did Obama snub the European leaders in Paris?

 
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 07:29 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Yes I did. The original version. Did you? What other argument is there? Oh yeah, Val once wrote an op-ed saying Israel was a democracy... Sooo racist!

There is a segment of parisian intelligentsia who considers that Muslims have historically been wronged by the west, and see Islamism as a response to western oppression. In this perspective, Israel is the devil and Muslims are all angels... Anyone who proceeds from a different approach is evidently a traitor to the real values of the french left, blah blah blah, and now a racist.

There's only so far you can go mocking equally Islamic terrorism, the Catholic Church, the US evangelists or the pro-colonization rabbis... Newspapers must tell the news, and the news are dominated by Boko Haram and ISIS and ****, and so any newspaper will naturally speak more of that than of the crimes of the pope.

Islam does have a problem with violence. The pope was mocked by Charlie thousands of times. Did he kill them. No, he didn't.

georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 09:40 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Yes, the interesting thing is that the major criticism of Obama is not coming from other world leaders and certainly not from the French government. It's mostly from his own countrymen, Americans of the opposition party. This isn't a matter of a serious faux pas but, rather, an example of the continuing partisan backbiting.


Apparently you believe the President is beyond rational criticism of any kind: if it occurs it must necessairly be based on subjective or questionable motivations. That is a fairly indefensible position for you to take, and one that very clearly reveals you to be motivated by prejudices analogous to those of which you broadly accuse anyone who criticizes him.

In the first place neither you nor I really know the attitudes of European leaders towards our current government. I believe there is ample evidence in some quarters to believe many Europeans are dismayed by the weak and feeble leadership of this administration. There are likely other discordant elements in their perceptions as well, but that is always the case.

The President's own spokesman has already admitted the absence of a U.S. representative was a "mistake", though I wonder about thje motivation or sincerity of the comment.

Partisan politics is always an element of political commentary here or anywhere else. It isn't much worse now than it was in the previous Administration, the the roles in the dialogue have shifted.
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 10:21 am
@georgeob1,
It's unfair to say that I "believe the President is beyond rational criticism." What I am suggesting is that the motivation for the current torrent of criticism is somewhat less than "rational."
0 Replies
 
Moment-in-Time
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 01:06 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
Quote:

Yes, the interesting thing is that the major criticism of Obama is not coming from other world leaders and certainly not from the French government. It's mostly from his own countrymen, Americans of the opposition party. This isn't a matter of a serious faux pas but, rather, an example of the continuing partisan backbiting.


Ah, you've scored a bullseye, Lustig Andrei. America's impassioned partisan Republican Party never misses an opportunity to publicly condemn the current president in its zest to please the Tea Party base. And watch my word, this personal criticism of Obama will become even more exploitative the closer we get to the Republican nomination as the GOP presidential candidates vie to eclipse the other in their rush to be the Republican nominee....one would think Barack Obama had the plague, so hostile is their critique of him.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 01:40 pm
@Olivier5,
Jeannette Bourgab, who was Charb's partner:

“Those who defend secularism in this country are accused of Islamophobia. We got the "Uncle Tom's awards"… Charb was writing a book on Islamophobia to deconstruct this. One can be secular and yet tolerant and accept that religion has its space in the private sphere.

I think they [people who accused Charlie Hebdo of racism] are guilty, they have a responsibility when they told constantly that [Charlie Hebdo’s journalists] were racist because they did this or that cartoon. By pointing fingers again and again… By saying that Charlie Hebdo are Islamophobic, that they hate Islam...

I think of the “Uncle Tom’s awards” [“Y’a Bon Awards”, award given by an anti-racist group to racist people] and the Natives of the Republic [les Indigènes de la République, a group fighting for the rights of the Muslim community, who accused CH of Islamophobia]... of course they are guilty. I say so and I will stick to my comments. Those who died today were no imams, they were freedom fighters.”

http://www.bfmtv.com/mediaplayer/video/attentat-contre-charlie-hebdo-mon-compagnon-est-mort-assassine-parce-qu-il-dessinait-dans-un-journal-jeannette-bougrab-0801-383736.html


hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 04:25 pm
@Olivier5,
This idea that saying anything negative about any victim group is an offensive ism has got to go. We need to be able to speak freely, and we need to be allowed to follow truth where ever it goes. The survival of civilization depends on this happening, and that is a lot more important than this stuff that the victim minders are sniveling about.

And how did a bunch a people who want to end our way of life get to be labeled victims anyways?

we in the West have gotten so weak and stupid that perhaps the islamists should beat us.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 04:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
I have always said that the ideological fight against Islamism was millions of times more important than any actual war. Charb, Cabu, Wolinsky and the others were fighting that war. They died in it. We need to pick up their flag and keep fighting.

Just to be clear, the term "Islamism" describes a totalitarian political ideology inspired by--or some say betraying--the Islamic religion.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 04:54 pm
@Olivier5,
Quote:
I have always said that the ideological fight against Islamism was millions of times more important than any actual war

It is pretty silly to even pretend that there is something to debate given the long running failure of islamic culture to produce. My response to them is " do what ever you want in your Ghetto but we dont want to give up what we have for what you have". Demanding that we do is a declaration of war.
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 14 Jan, 2015 05:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
To each his ****. Europe is closed to the ME and Northern Africa, and has many immigrants from these places. While you guys can ignore the issue if you want, we can't. That ideological warfare must be fought. There are millions of atheists or non-believers in those countries, and they look up to us to help them get free from religious oppression. We have millions of Muslims in our countries and we must make sure they don't turn into terrorists too often. Staying distant and silent is not an option for us.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 01:15 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Where was President Obama?


Quote:
He was too busy planning more disasters. Lots of planes to be lost, cops to be shot, oil spills, immigrants to sneak in


Wow, edgar must be having a stroke...he's talking sense...keep smoking/drinking or what ever caused it...you're now on the right track.
0 Replies
 
giujohn
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 01:19 pm
Why didnt obammy go to France? There can be only one reason.Its the same reason he is emptying GITMO. He agrees with radical islam.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 02:34 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Why didnt obammy go to France? There can be only one reason.Its the same reason he is emptying GITMO. He agrees with radical islam.

You just weakened any claims you might make about believing in law and order. Gitmo should never have been used to remove hand picked individuals from the legal process. You (and the nation) either believes in law as the frame work for society or we dont....we cant claim to believe in it and also choose to not let law work when ever the mood strikes, and " the law will not give the result that we want" is not an argument for striking it.
katsung47
 
  -3  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 04:48 pm
I think the Paris Hebdo attack was a false flag one which was a warning and punishment on France for its compromise to the Russia. Russia is the top consideration in US world strategy right now. That’s why they planned this “terror attack” and of course the top US leader won’t present in Paris parade.

Quote:
Hollande Risks EU Split Over Russian Sanctions Relief
By James G. Neuger Dec 19, 2014

Europe stumbled into a debate over the end of sanctions on the economically distressed Russia after French President Francois Hollande became the first major leader to dangle the prospect of easing the curbs.

Hollande’s appeal at a European Union summit yesterday was a reminder that the bans on financing of major Russian banks and the export of energy-exploration equipment will lapse next July unless renewed unanimously by the 28 EU governments.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-19/hollande-risks-eu-split-over-russian-sanctions-relief.html
Lustig Andrei
 
  2  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 05:16 pm
@katsung47,
What the **** are you talking about? Do you have any idea?
giujohn
 
  -4  
Reply Sat 17 Jan, 2015 05:20 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
You just weakened any claims you might make about believing in law and order. Gitmo should never have been used to remove hand picked individuals from the legal process


Wrong. They were never in (or shouldnt have been) the legal process. These arent street criminals. They are enemy combatants and therefore not afforded any protectection under cival law.

Subject: Enemy Combatants

There is no doubt that the attacks of September 11, 2001 constituted acts of war. They possessed the intensity and scale of war. They involved at least one military target, the Pentagon, and they came on the heels of a decade of attacks by al Qaida on U.S. military and civilian targets. Congress on September 18, 2001 authorized the President to use force in response to the attacks. And both the United Nations and NATO recognized that the attacks were “armed attacks” within the meaning of the UN Charter and NATO treaty. Since September 11th (and perhaps before then), we have been at war – both legally and in fact.

War implicates legal powers and rules that are not available during peacetime. Among other things, the war context gives the President the authority to detain enemy combatants at least until hostilities cease.

Enemy Combatant

An “enemy combatant” is an individual who, under the laws and customs of war, may be detained for the duration of an armed conflict. In the current conflict with al Qaida and the Taliban, the term includes a member, agent, or associate of al Qaida or the Taliban. In applying this definition, the United States government has acted consistently with the observation of the Supreme Court of the United States in Ex parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1, 37-38 (1942): “Citizens who associate themselves with the military arm of the enemy government, and with its aid, guidance and direction enter this country bent on hostile acts are enemy belligerents within the meaning of the Hague Convention and the law of war.”

“Enemy combatant” is a general category that subsumes two sub-categories: lawful and unlawful combatants. See Quirin, 317 U.S. at 37-38. Lawful combatants receive prisoner of war (POW) status and the protections of the Third Geneva Convention. Unlawful combatants do not receive POW status and do not receive the full protections of the Third Geneva Convention. (The treatment accorded to unlawful combatants is discussed below).

The President determined that al Qaida members are unlawful combatants because (among other reasons) they are members of a non-state actor terrorist group that does not receive the protections of the Third Geneva Convention. He additionally determined that the Taliban detainees are unlawful combatants because they do not satisfy the criteria for POW status set out in Article 4 of the Third Geneva Convention. Although the President’s determination on this issue is final, courts have concurred with his determination.

Authority to Detain

The President has unquestioned authority to detain enemy combatants, including those who are U.S. citizens, during wartime. See, e.g., Quirin, 317 U.S. at 31, 37 (1942); Colepaugh v. Looney, 235 F. 2d 429, 432 (10th Cir. 1956); In re Territo, 156 F. 2d 142, 145 (9th Cir. 1946). The Fourth Circuit recently reaffirmed this proposition. See Hamdi v. Rumsfeld, 296 F.3d 278, 281, 283 (4th Cir. 2002). The authority to detain enemy combatants flows primarily from Article II of the Constitution. In the current conflict, the President’s authority is bolstered by Congress’s Joint Resolution of September 18, 2001, which authorized “the President . . . to use all necessary and appropriate force” against al Qaida and against those nations, organizations, or persons he determines” committed or aided in the September 11 attacks.” Pub. L. No. 107-40, § 2(a), 115 Stat. 224 (2001) (emphasis added). This congressional action clearly triggers (if any trigger were necessary) the President’s traditional authority to detain enemy combatants as Commander in Chief.

Presidents (and their delegates) have detained enemy combatants in every major conflict in the Nation’s history, including recent conflicts such as the Gulf, Vietnam, and Korean wars. During World War II, the United States detained hundreds of thousands of POWs in the United States (some of whom were U.S. citizens) without trial or counsel. Then as now, the purposes of detaining enemy combatants during wartime are, among other things, to gather intelligence and to ensure that detainees do not return to assist the enemy.

Who Decides

The determination of enemy combatant status has traditionally resided with the military commander who is authorized to engage the enemy with deadly force. In this regard, the task ultimately falls within the President’s constitutional responsibility as Commander in Chief to identify which forces and persons to engage or capture and detain during an armed conflict. Of course, there is no requirement that the President make such determinations personally, and in the vast majority of cases he does not do so. Rather, consistent with longstanding historical practice and applicable rules of engagement, the task is normally a function of the military command structure.

In the current conflict, military personnel ordinarily make enemy combatant determinations during combat operations, under the combatant commander’s direction. With respect to individuals captured in the United States, to date DoD has detained only Abdullah al Muhajir, also known as Jose Padilla. The President, as Commander in Chief, determined that Mr. Padilla is an enemy combatant.

Detainee Rights

All of the detainees are unlawful combatants and thus do not as a matter of law receive the protections of the Third Geneva Convention. However, the United States armed forces are treating, and will continue to treat, all enemy combatants humanely and, to the extent appropriate and consistent with military necessity, in a manner consistent with the principles of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949. Among many other things, this means that they receive: three meals a day that meet Muslim dietary laws; medical care; clothing and shoes; shelter; showers; soap and toilet articles; the opportunity to worship; the means to send mail and receive mail, subject to security screening; and the ability to receive packages of food and clothing, also subject to security screening. In addition, the International Committee of the Red Cross has visited and will continue to visit the detainees privately. The detainees will be permitted to raise concerns about their conditions, and we will attempt to address those concerns consistent with security.

The non-citizen detainees in Guantanamo have no right to habeas corpus relief in U.S. courts. See, e.g., Coalition of Clergy v. Bush, 189 F. Supp. 2d 1036 (C.D. Cal. 2002), affirmed on other grounds, 2002 U.S. App. LEXIS 23705 (9th Cir. Nov. 18, 2002). As noted above, however, we have permitted the ICRC access to the detainees, and we have notified each detainee’s country of origin that the detainee is in DoD control.

U.S. citizen enemy combatants who are detained in the United States may challenge their detention by a petition for habeas corpus. In the view of the U.S. government, enemy combatants have no right to counsel to challenge their detention. Providing enemy combatants a right of access to counsel could thwart our ability to collect critical information and could imperil efforts to prevent further terrorist attacks. It might also enable detained enemy combatants to pass concealed messages to the enemy.

In Padilla v. Bush, 2002 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 23086 (S.D.N.Y. December 4, 2002), the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York recently upheld the government’s ability to detain U.S. citizen enemy combatants in the United States but required the government to provide access to Padilla by his attorneys for limited purposes. We are currently reviewing the court’s decision.

Length of Detention

Many have claimed that enemy combatants are being detained “indefinitely.” The suggestion appears to be that they are being detained lawlessly and without limit. That is not true. As explained above, the constitutional power to detain during wartime is well settled. In addition, international law – including the Third Geneva Convention – unambiguously permits a government to detain enemy combatants at least until hostilities cease. There may be uncertainty about when hostilities cease in the novel conflict with al Qaida. But disquiet about indefinite detention is misplaced for two reasons.

First, the concern is premature. In prior wars combatants (including U.S. POWs) have been legally detained for years. We have not yet approached that point in the current conflict. Second, the government has no interest in detaining enemy combatants any longer than necessary, and the Department of Defense reviews the status of all enemy combatants on a case-by-case basis to determine whether they should continue to be detained. Since we first captured or came to control detainees in Afghanistan, we have released many thousands, and we recently released additional detainees from the United States Naval Base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. But as long as hostilities continue and the detainees present a threat or retain intelligence or law enforcement value, no law requires that the detainees be released, and it would be imprudent to do so.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Capturing and detaining a U.S. citizen, or any other human being, is not an activity DoD takes lightly. As in other armed conflicts in which our Nation has been engaged, the detention of enemy combatants serves a vitally important protective function. Equally important, however, the deliberate, conscientious, and humane manner in which we designate and detain enemy combatants reflects our values and character as a Nation. We are committed to defending the United States in accordance with our constitutional responsibilities, while preserving the constitutional rights of United States citizens.


0 Replies
 
katsung47
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 28 Jan, 2015 06:06 pm
@Lustig Andrei,
It's part of effort to save US dollars. To save US economy, they created crisis in Europe and Asia, to drive the money from these two places to US market. Ukraine war, the conflict between China and its neibor coutries, and terror attack in Paris, are all tactics in US strategy. European leaders knew it, so they show a unity march to protest against it. Of course, US knew it was target at him, so US won't join the parade.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Feb, 2015 10:20 pm
@Olivier5,
Net loves the publicity
0 Replies
 
katsung47
 
  -1  
Reply Sun 8 Feb, 2015 07:17 pm
Paris attack designed to shore up France’s vassal status: Roberts
Sat Jan 10, 2015

A former White House official says the terrorist attack that killed 12 people on Wednesday in Paris was a false flag operation “designed to shore up France’s vassal status to Washington.”

Dr. Paul Craig Roberts, who was Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration and associate editor of the Wall Street Journal, made the remarks in an article published on Thursday.

Dr. Roberts stated that French President Francois Hollande this week said that the sanctions against Russia should end. “This is too much foreign policy independence on France’s part for Washington.”

He added that the CIA has apparently resurrected a policy that it followed against Europeans during the post-WW II era when the US spy agency would carry out attacks in European states and blame them on communist groups

Dr. Roberts said now the US agencies have planned false flag operations in Europe to create hatred against Muslims and bring European countries under Washington’s sphere of influence.

He noted that “the attack on Charlie Hebdo was an inside job and that people identified by NSA as hostile to the Western wars against Muslims are going to be framed for an inside job designed to pull France firmly back under Washington’s thumb.”

http://www.presstv.ir/Detail/2015/01/10/392443/CIA-carried-out-Paris-attack-Roberts
katsung47
 
  0  
Reply Fri 20 Feb, 2015 06:17 pm
@katsung47,
http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-797997-breitwandaufmacher-emqi.jpg

World leaders- mainly European’s, gathered together having a unity march. They knew it’s US’ intimidation to force them into a fake “war against terror”. In a rare show, they say “no” to the US.
0 Replies
 
katsung47
 
  1  
Reply Tue 3 Mar, 2015 06:00 pm
In Minsk Truce, German and France insist to solve Ukraine crisis by diplomacy, US suggest by supplying arm. US was absent in Minsk. In Paris world leaders unity March against "terror attack", US was absent too. The divergence is very clear.
0 Replies
 
 

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