US/Cuba Look to Normalize Relations

@georgeob1,

That seems to be a bit backward from much of our foreign policy. We would dump billions into hopeless economies just to prevent them from becoming "Communist" yet we don't seem to try to insert some seed money to help communist regimes to overcome their politically based hardships.
We seem to never learn lessons of history. We spend and spend on high sounding "principles" yet , in the past, the big communist countries would make sure their clients were well fed and the kids were clothed and given meds.

I think, with Cuba, e need to try some new thinking becasue whatever the hell weve been doing for most of our history hasn't worked well (IMHO).

Your attitude is like the "if we had bacon, we could have bacon nd eggs, if we had eggs".
Cuba has been enjoying a more robust tourist trade from the rest of the world (Canada, UK,much of Europe). I see that the edges of hard -core communist control are cracking. We could be the final irresistible force that can do some major turning of the regime that's running out of time on the planet.

I think that, by constructively engaging Cuba , will make us look a lot less like a bunch of hard assed doctrinairians to the rest of the civilized world and I also think it will hasten a return to a market economy that is most beneficial to its citizenry.

China has already got Nicaragua in its sphere of interest by funding a new canal (Its already being built, and ERM's got the major environmental contract).

I believe that youre still thinking more like a warrior.

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I see it the way farmerman sees it.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

That seems to be a bit backward from much of our foreign policy. We would dump billions into hopeless economies just to prevent them from becoming "Communist" yet we don't seem to try to insert some seed money to help communist regimes to overcome their politically based hardships.
We seem to never learn lessons of history. We spend and spend on high sounding "principles" yet , in the past, the big communist countries would make sure their clients were well fed and the kids were clothed and given meds.

I think, with Cuba, e need to try some new thinking becasue whatever the hell weve been doing for most of our history hasn't worked well (IMHO).

I'll agree that much of what we have spent on "nation building" has been wasted, if judged only based on ther effect on the nation involved. Some of it was tactics attendant to a prolonged great power struggle with the Soviet Union. We won that one, and we and the world are better off for it. That's not to say or imply that every single thing we did in pursuit of that goal was either worthwhile of free of adverse side effects. Many missteps along that way.

All things considered we ended that struggle with more and more lasting allies than did the USSR, so I would seriuously discount your comparisons in this area. What we stand for, represent and promised for the future compared to the USSR counted more than anything else in that struggle.

Cuba is what it is as a result of the actions taken and not taken by the Cuban Government and the Cuban people. We didn't make Cuba what it is today, and, as long as it is no serious threat to us, it really doesn't matter much one way or the other what it is. Cuba is not our responsibility.

I'll agree it would be better for the Cubans and better for the world if they were to throw off the yoke of the Castros, just as it would be better for the Nicaraguans and Venezuelans if they were to throw off the corrupt and incompetent authoritatians who make their lives miserable. Unless our own security is threatened, it's not our role do do this for them. Even the effort to do so can easily have adverse and difficult to forsee side effects (as we have repeatedly learned).

The end games are fast approaching for both Cuba and Venezuela. We should seize the opportunity to do nothing ... instead to merely observe the fruits of their revolutionary labors and the catastrophies that result, and make sure the collapse is seen for what it is by those foolish or corrupt enough to have supported it. We can make ourselves available for neighborly help and assistance if requested by a sufficiently trustworthy and competent government ... should one emerge from the ashes.

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@farmerman,

I agree with your assessment. The majority of Cuban people living today had absolutely nothing to do with the Revolution by Castro. As a communist state, Cuba's people suffers from over-education and very little opportunities. That's the price and Cuban people pays under their government.

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@georgeob1,

Quote:

We can make ourselves available for neighborly help and assistance if requested by a sufficiently trustworthy and competent government ... should one emerge from the ashes

The usual pathway for our neighbors has usually been thus: A political vacuum I quickly filled by a junto of not vey nice people.

I really believe that opening a constructive dialogue with Cuba with an intended road to complete normalization is good for both countries. As it has been for the last half century we have NO abilities to affect any change except through intermediaries.

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The logic and sanity on planet Earth has increased because Barack Obama has decided to begin the end to the stupidity that has dictated the policy of our country toward Cuba for much, much too long.

Yes, there are people who are going to disagree...but they probably are the same people who thought invading Iraq and getting rid of Saddam Hussein would help stabilize the Middle East and make Iraq a safer place for its citizens.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

getting rid of Saddam Hussein would help stabilize the Middle East and make Iraq a safer place for its citizens.

http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/infocus/elections/freedomessay/images/p41953-853-398h.jpg

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Quote:

The United Nations General Assembly has almost unanimously voted to condemn the US embargo on Cuba, in the first such resolution since US-Cuban diplomatic ties were restored earlier this year.

The motion won more support than it has done in the past, with 191 members of the 193-member body voting in favour.

Only the US and Israel opposed the resolution, which is non-binding.

The US had earlier said it may abstain if the resolution's language differed significantly from previous ones.

The UN General Assembly (UNGA) has voted in favour of the resolution condemning the US embargo on Cuba for every year since 1992.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-34652652

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@izzythepush,

well, I for one ask the question as to who voted the UN a seat in Congress?

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@farmerman,

So World opinion doesn't matter, and America should be able to do whatever it wants?

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@izzythepush,

for America, our interests SHOULD be primary, yes.

I think our path to normalcy is what it should be. HAve problems with that?

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I've never understood our shutdown (by us) of Cuba, at least of the level it went to for so very long. A case of ordinary people hurting most, as often happens.
No, I'm not a marxist, have never read the book, not interested. On the other hand, I understand some of that.

I figure a lot of our dealing had to do with the cold war heating to boiling, fear of Russia being a few waves away from annihilating us. I was one of the kids who climbed under our desks for drills. I get the general concern by us. Decades of closing the country off? endlessly reactionary?

No way, Jose. I am beyond embarrassed.

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@farmerman,

Are they your interests though?

Who really benefits other than some politicians funded by a load of Cuban ex pats?

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@izzythepush,

Most Cuban Americans who escaped Cuba are dead set against normalization. There is always a big celebration of the life of "Frank Pais" on his death day (Its almost as big as ELvis death day in S Fla)

have to seek council from Ragman.

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

Most Cuban Americans who escaped Cuba are dead set against normalization. There is always a big celebration of the life of "Frank Pais" on his death day (Its almost as big as ELvis death day in S Fla)

have to seek council from Ragman.

why should I care? Has anyone studied their motive for not wanting to change a multi decade old policy that does not seem to have accomplished much? I can think of quite a few that should not be encouraged much less be a factor in what we decide to do with Cuba.

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@farmerman,

Many of us who have read about all this forever want peace.

I'm only awaiting the many ways US business can cream Cuba, still poor slamming. I do get all help is not meant that way but a batch of it is.

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@ossobuco,

ossobuco wrote:

Many of us who have read about all this forever want peace.

I'm only awaiting the many ways US business can cream Cuba, still poor slamming. I do get all help is not meant that way but a batch of it is.

This bullshit has not been worth 10% of the talk/time and effort that we have put into it. The seeds of the current collapse of Washington have been around for a long time. As well as has been our failure to prioritize.

I blame the education system.

On the plus side, if you can call it that, we are now so swamped with major problems that we have to let some of the bullshit problems go over board.

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@ossobuco,

I wanna go down there and buy a 56 Chevy Nomad, or a 56 Olds Rocket 98 (A new car of my dad's in which I first threw up in as a wee tyke)

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@farmerman,

farmerman wrote:

I wanna go down there and buy a 56 Chevy Nomad, or a 56 Olds Rocket 98 (A new car of my dad's in which I first threw up in as a wee tyke)

Turns out that they have been far to far modified to be of much value up here. Best you think of a different hobby.

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@hawkeye10,

oh, as long as the body n frames are OK, Who cares about the engine all those year engines have already given up the ghost due to their manifolds eroding from all the acid deposition from leaded gas. Im not looking at concourse condition. I wanna drive it. We have plenty of modern steel and ceramic manifold engines that can be tricked out way better than those old "Mega cubed jalopies" The NOMAD would be outstanding for towing a wee Airstream weekender and the Olds 98 would be great for discovery and conquest of new civilizations.

1 Reply

US/Cuba Look to Normalize Relations

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