Desperate for new perspective and peace of mind

You're under the impression that you can change this girl. That's a dream. People change, at their rythm, but people can't change people. She knows that's what you're trying to do, too. Why don't you stop that and see what happens after a while?

The way i see it, you're trying way too hard. I know that relationships are supposed to be 'hard work' but this looks more like labour camp...

Oh crap.

I know who you are now.

I recognize the writing style.

I didn't think I'd figure it out so quickly.

I've only explained things in the context of the current situation, while briefly grazing over what led to the initial break up.

Before we broke up, I was so chill and relaxed about EVERYTHING. I didn't care what she did, I didn't care how long it took her to respond to phone calls or texts, I didn't care about how much she listened or didn't listen, I just liked hanging out with her, enjoying passionate sex with her, and having fun together. HOWEVER, once she really fell in love with me, she would go absolutely crazy if I would go 10 minutes without responding to text and calls, she even messaged random girls I used to talk to on Facebook before to see if I was talking to them, she even started an argument with an ex of mine she saw at the gym and demanded that I delete any old pictures with her in them off my Facebook, she would talk poorly about my family members who would bend over backwards to do things for her, she deleted all the contacts in my phone one time because there were some girls names in there (which alot of those contacts were #'s of people I conduct business with and make money with), and many other incidents that would take too much time to type out.

I didn't end it when the problems initially started to occur though. I just thought she needed me to assure her of how much I love her and I just needed to be patient. However, she was EXTREMELY OBSESSED with me. She not only passionately loved me, but she REALLY loved me and thought I was the sexiest, smartest, most interesting man on earth--literally. She even admitted this the other day to me and agreed she really did used to go over board because of how strongly her feelings towards me were.

After months of trying to assure her she was worthy of my love and explaining that she's absolutely everything I want and need, it began to wear on me... I tried to be so understanding and let her know every day that I love her, but who wants to CONSTANTLY go over the same thing day after day after day. NO MATTER WHAT she just never really believed I loved her, and again, this stems from her insecurities... One thing that did bother her, though, was that I had been with a lot of girls in the past and she knew quite a few of the girls I had been with, but I have NEVER cheated while in a relationship. I take love and loyalty very seriously... Anyways, to no avail, nothing worked. So I just thought to myself "Well, whether I try my hardest to make her realize I love her, or if I don't try at all. the end result will always be the same. She's still going to doubt my love"... Obviously this caused even more problems, however. She sensed I wasn't as reassuring and I began to withdraw some. I just couldn't handle the constant pressure. Anyone in my situation wouldn't have been able to sustain that type of relationship. I just really loved who she was whenever we didn't have issues.

Anyways, I began trying to hangout with friends more and spent more time working out or enjoying hobbies, and she felt neglected. But I felt unappreciated and nagged all the time. And I did everything for this girl. I bought her a car, paid her phone bill each month, bought her clothes all the time, gave her a house to live in. She was just so obsessed with me and I tried to encourage her to hangout with friends, but she would act like people annoy her so easily. She is literally annoyed by everyone and says NOBODY understands her. It was suffocating though being her only source of friendship or entertainment. Like Jesus Christ, is it too much to ask to have some space sometimes and do my own thing sometimes? Eventually she started lying to me about stuff and I kicked her out. We had both said some pretty nasty things, but I'm always the one to end up feeling bad and telling her I don't mean the things I had said. All the while she never seems to feel remorse.

So we were apart for over 4 months and only saw each other to pick up or drop off our daughter. She tried to contact me some over the first couple months, but when I would give in the first couple times and say I miss her to and would want to see her, she would instantly turn cold and say we couldn't see each other. I caught on to the head games quickly and cut off all contact that was beyond my daughter... But eventually she began contacting me more and trying desperately to get my attention. I ignored her for a long time, but I did miss her and felt like maybe things could work out. I eventually gave in and have tried to work things out, but one day she wants to be together, and the next she says she can't be in a relationship because she is too stressed by other things in life and the relationship is a burden.. And I will do nothing to provoke these mood swings. I just want her to be all in and not ditch the relationship and leave me high and dry if I'm going to put my all into creating something better than before. Is that unreasonable? I just don't want to be the one getting hurt and trying when she can just move on so easily....

Anyways, I'm not sure how I'm being crucified after the things I've explained. And I don't "demand" anything. I'm not some dictator who lectures her and tells her she is so bad and wrong and she needs to follow my orders. I simply tell her that some things hurt me when she does them, and that I wish she would just accept me and want to talk some issues out with me...

Like I said, before I didn't really put in all this work. But I'm in a position now to put in work because I'm trying to salvage a relationship that has been damaged. I want to put my full love and heart into her, but it's difficult when the other persons emotions are so haywire. It really seems like she has split personalities. She has even acknowledged that because she has spoken often about being a Gemini and how Geminis are the twin sign and it seems like they can have completely different sides to them... I just have a difficult time going all in when she can be so in love one minute, then indifferent and distant the next. And she lied on a lot of occasions before the break up before, and I caught her in a red handed lie again just last week... I don't blame her for the things in the past, because we both have to move on from that stuff in order to make this successful together. But we can't continue the same destructive behaviors as before, or there will only be the same result... Of course I'm trying hard right now because that time away made me realize the importance of this and how much work it will take to get things on the right track. But I can't do that with someone who can flee any second. That's not a foundation to build a relationship upon...

So there will be days where I'm making her crack up all day laughing and were doing stuff together and doing things with our daughter and taking her places and getting her things and everything is great. Then the next day something bad will happen or she will be stressed out, so she says she has no time to focus on a relationship... How am I not expected to have concerns and questions when she has done stuff like that? Because she will eventually come back around and occasionally admit fault in her own ways... But of course I have some questions regarding her motivations and if she is really going to try to make this work. She even said to me while she was upset once that she was just trying to use me to do stuff for her and never really wanted it to work in the first place. But later on apologized and said that wasn't true and said she obviously loved me and that she just gets stressed... So how am I supposed to know which one to believe? Because she also lied a lot leading up to our initial break up. And I caught her in a red handed lie just last week. So how would other people react in my situations. I know the obvious answer would be to just break up for good, which is how I'm really feeling it has to be now.

Since yesterday I just really feel it won't EVER work now, finally. For one, I just really loved this girl more than I could even explain. And second, I'm personally someone who loves for real. I'm VERY loyal in all my relationships (not just romantic), I'm very generous in all relationships, I'm very nurturing, and making my partner feel good or taken care of is a priority I even place above my own happiness. I feel it's more important to make my girl feel good than myself. That's how much I love her. I could go on for hours about sacrifices--large and small-- I make to comfort her and bring her happiness.

So it was hard for me to REALLY let go, but since yesterday I just kind of feel different in my bones I guess is the best way for me to describe it. I just feel like I can really let go now

Refer to my response to "Punkey"...

Lmao, WOW! That's sad. Just think to yourself "What if this person REALLY ISN'T someone who has ever posted on here before"...

Then imagine how stupid you would look if that were true.
Because it is true. And you look extremely stupid haha... Just save yourself some embarrassment now and excuse yourself from this conversation

What you are talking about is known as push/pull and it is common. All good relationships start with us trying to get our needs met and alternately comforting and challenging our mates. Those who dont know how to do relationship well do it poorly. You claim that she cant do it because she has never seen a good relationship, you seem to gelieve that you offer that so she should be fine.

Two things:
1)she is probably damaged so her seeing a good relationship or being with a good guy is unlikey to make much difference.

2) in my experince damaged people almost always mate with other damaged people, which make me want to know what is your story.

A lot of these people never get better, they usually end up crashing in their late 30's early 40's. If you work on you in 10-20 years you will likely be thankful that you only invested a couple of years into her.

That said, I myself decided to go the other way, I decided to follow my love and stayed with a damaged woman. It has most certainly not always been bliss. But if you go back in do it with your eyes open....never make excuses for her bad behavior, take care of you, and take the best she can do as good enough.

I love your comment hawkeye. You have so many things I want to address.

I did feel like that if I loved her right and make her feel good about herself and I did all I could, that eventually her fears and insecurities would go away. I didn't realize how much effort it would actually take.

And I have made excuses for her behavior. It's hard for me to really be mad at her deep down about things because I don't TRULY hold her accountable. I know it's not her fault she has the underlying issues she has that cause problems. They're subconscious...

Also, I have had a rough upbringing myself. I can identify and relate to some of her pain. And what really pulled me in, is that sometimes I could look in her eyes when we would be laying together, so in love, and I could see such a big-hearted girl who has just had to endure a bad life, and I just wanted to rescue her. I have always wanted to be the one she can run to and escape the rest of the world from, and to be the one that can listen to her and make her feel like everything was ok. I used to be that, and our love was so extremely passionate. It felt like my heart could burst with love for this girl when we were together. I felt like we really connected at our souls... I had a way out of my toxic environment at age 9, though. I was given a way out and put into a structured environment where I thrived academically and socially among my peers, as well as with every sport I played. I was able to change my course and learn things and be able to learn about myself and come to terms with certain things and learn how to over come the problems I may experience from the bad things I went through. Other people don't get that chance, though. They never get a way out and are stuck in situations where they never get a chance to learn how to cope with and change the errors of their ways that result from their environment. Their environment is all they know. They know no better...

I had my chance out, but I still feel a deep rooted connection with her because I can really feel her pain. Also, not only did I have that connection with her, I actually really really loved who she was. Not to mention she's my type physically 100%. I was extremely in love with every aspect of her... I appreciate that she is complex, but she's beyond complex.

You are making excuses for her again...she is 20, not 12. Victims are very often victims because they want to be, they actually seek out people who will abuse them and if they cant get that person to abuse them they will leave. I have known lots of people who's lives are still a wreck in their 40's, mostly because they keep sabotaging their lives almost like it is on purpose....over and over and over again. I dont know that that is this girls thing, but be very careful about concluding "bad things keep happening to her, and it is not her fault".



Bullshit, she does not need anyone to come save her, in fact no one can save her, she needs to save herself. She needs to want it and she needs to do it. At nine sure, adults need to change your situation to help you, but at 20 she needs to change her situation if she wants to do something different. There are a bazillion organizations out their itching for the chance to give stuff to a 20 year old with a kid who wants to make something of her life. Has she called them? has she stuck with anything that she has started that was intended to get her life to a better place?

you dont want to know how many guys I have met who started with that idea, and then went through 10, 20 or more years of of misery before giving up, or having the chick walk out on them. THese guys tend to end up broken and bitter, they will never love again. You cant save someone who does not want to be saved, and being with someone who cant even take care of themselves much less you is exhausting because you have to do all of the taking care of you.

Hopefully she is a good mom, it could be, but if it is not you are on the hook for a lot of heartache and problems in the years ahead. My advice: go find somebody who is loving, put together, and is going to do something with her life. You might very well be taking in your kid soon, you will need a home that this kid can thrive in.

Question: was this kid planned? Or did it just happen "OOPS!"?

95 times out of a hundred the answer is "OOPS!", but much of the time it is not so much OOPS! as YAY!

BTW: I just lost a full time employee who as a 20yo female made three colossally stupid life choices this year, giving her a year from hell, losing her car, and is now back home without a job and beyond broke counting on money coming in that is never going to come...and near as I can tell has learned nothing from her three colossally stupid decisions

Lives can be in a constant mess on purpose. Willful bad decision making is on purpose. In this case I am pretty sure that this is all about her being pissed with her mom, she needs her life to be a wreck so that mom will come and save her, thus proving her love. How many more years is she going to play this game of a nine year old I wonder?

It's very simple find someone who can accept and everything what you had and who you are, you don't have to push yourself to that girl that has a lot of problems just like what you said.

"I'm VERY loyal in all my relationships (not just romantic), I'm very generous in all relationships, I'm very nurturing, and making my partner feel good or taken care of is a priority I even place above my own happiness. I feel it's more important to make my girl feel good than myself. That's how much I love her. I could go on for hours about sacrifices--large and small-- I make to comfort her and bring her happiness."

I think your life will seem very long and hard if you make this your mantra for relationships.

I think that is unreal - that when people are partners they don't also take care of who they themselves are at the same time they care about the other partner.
Ingratiating with sacrifice after sacrifice can be a mode to make the person like you, sort of a tooling move.

I don't believe half the praise this guy James is generously pouring onto himself...

Playing the knight in shining armour working to save the damsel in distress. Most of the time that plan does not go so good, they are unhelpful and unappreciated and cant understand why.


Ego some, but more not understanding why being the good guy gets the reaction that it does. The problem that guys who do as they have been taught re dealing with women finding out through practice that MR sensitive nice guy is not what women want is compounded when dealing with broken women. James needs to learn to give women what they want, not what they are supposed to want, and he never figured out what this particular woman wants.

I'm just now getting a chance to read all the replies, and instead of replying to each one individually, I'll just give a single reply that kind of addresses them all...

To begin, our daughter wasn't planned. If it wasn't for my girlfriend becoming pregnant, I probably would have ended this for good a long time ago. The issues in the relationship didn't start until a month or two before her becoming pregnant. Her being pregnant is a reason why I tried as hard as I did in the first place...

Aslo, I don't mean to make it come off as I'm just some sensitive good-guy that bends over backwards to appease every unreasonable demand of his crazy girlfriend... When we first started off, I thought she was just going to be a summer fling. I was in college at the time, but I was back for the summer in my home town which was about 1 hour and 30 min from where I go to school... So I see her at a party and am instantly attracted to her. Long story short, I eventually start hanging out with her and she begins to come over to my house... I was very impressed with her immediately because she made me wait a few weeks to have sex with her... Now, I have been with many girls, and they almost always let me have sex with them the first or second time of hanging out. So I was kind of impressed with the self respect this girl had for herself because it was very obvious she wanted sex just as much as I did... But once we did have sex, we had sex ALL THE TIME. Like we could be in my bed room for days, all over each other, just completely naked under the covers with each other.. Obviously we would still eat and do other necessary things for survival, but we were pretty much just in my room having sex 90% of the time... We would go to sleep after having sex, then I would wake up to her a lot of times rubbing all over me, and we would have sex again without even speaking a single word to each other... We slept in every day, had plenty of sex, and talked all the time in between. It was literally perfect. But it was also the "honeymoon phase".

Anyways, I went back to school after summer with the intentions of not speaking to her anymore. However, I began missing her after about 2 months back at school and we started to talk again some. Eventually I would drive down every single weekend, and it was the same routine. I would pick her up, then we would pretty much just be in my room having sex all weekend. It was amazing... We both felt like the rest of the world didn't even exist anymore when we were together in my room. All of the problems in life seemed to disappear.

So inevitably we both started to fall in love with each other... I loved everything about this girl. I'm aware that a great deal of lust was involved, but I also loved who she was... The problems started to occur when she became extremely jealous and always started to question my love. Again, this stems from her insecurities. I just thought I could help her overcome these issues, but I couldn't...

And I don't mean to make myself sound perfect or like I'm throwing upon myself heavy praise, but I'm just trying to be as honest as possible about things. I've already admitted that I have said nasty things to her and I started to become distant as a result of the constant issues she causes... I really didn't cause any problems after I fell in love with her. I completely trusted her, I always had fun around her, and I was completely at peace and content with the whole situation of the relationship... However, I just got pushed away by being accused of cheating and the doubts of my love EVERY SINGLE DAY, MULTIPLE TIMES A DAY. Did I mention that this girl was obsessed with me? She just admitted this to me several days ago. Although I was already aware of that. It drove her to act crazy and do irrational things.

In regards to the things I would do for her, I would sacrifice my own happiness for hers within reason... Like always being the one to have to lay uncomfortably while we sleep so she can sleep soundly. Like not seeing my friends very often because she wanted all of my attention. Like biting my tongue sometimes to prevent arguments... And plenty of other examples. But never would I sacrifice my respect for myself or let her make me feel like less of a man. There's a definite line between sacrificing comfort to make your girlfriend more comfortable, and sacrificing your dignity and respect so your girlfriend can get her way. I'm fully aware of the two...

But yes, I would do a lot for my girlfriend because I adored and loved her. I patiently shopped with her to get things like clothes, although I hated how long she took but I would do it because it was something she enjoyed. I would watch some of the worst movies I had ever seen because they were movies she wanted to watch. I mean normal stuff that guys should do for their girls. But I also made a lot of money, so I would always take her to expensive restaurants, I paid her phone bill every month, I even gave her a car at one point. I would get her pretty much anything she wanted because she meant more to me than money...

And I'm not here to defend myself to some random people. Whether anyone believes or doesn't believe anything I have said is neither here nor there... I just wanted people I could talk to about this stuff because I've already exhausted my previous outlets from the previous break up. There's only so many times I can talk to my brother or best friend about my relationship. And I haven't even talked to them that much about my relationship in great detail because I'm not the type of guy to be moping around and constantly transfixed on what a terrible break up I'm going through. I don't like people to see or know things are affecting or bothering me... So I don't like even bothering people around me with my problems because they have problems of their own to deal with.

And I realize I can't make excuses for her and feed into her victim mentality. I tell her she has to take responsibility for stuff, but in the back of my mind I've just always known that she wouldn't do these irrational things if it weren't for what she has seen growing up.. I mean both of her parents just got out of prison last yr after being in for about 2 yrs a piece. Her dad (black) was selling meth. And her mom (white) had a probation violation. But her mom could have been locked up for far more. She went on a drugged up rampage months leading up to her arrest. She help up a gas station at gun point, she stole several thousands of dollars worth of merchandise from stores, she got into a hit and run and fought the woman she hit, she went to the hospital for a heroin needle infection in her arm, she would steal peoples' identities and use credit cards in others' names, she was even sleeping and living with the dads cousin leading up to her arrest... So that's some insight for you into what she had to see....

Now if this girl was a complete product of her environment, I wouldn't have ever been with her. But she's so much more, Shes's so different than everyone else in her family. So different from her sisters and cousins and aunts and all of them... She was so deep and so complex. I was seriously amazed at how she could develop these qualities from the circumstances she came from. Her mom used to have her and her sisters steal stuff from stores for her. I mean, the influences were beyond terrible. So I just couldn't help but to be amazed at how intelligent and complex she was. It's like a rose growing in the dessert. She really was a diamond in the rough... And I could see the struggle between who she really was, and with the influences of her up-bringing. I seriously felt like I could look into her soul through her eyes sometimes... I wanted to help bring out her positive traits. I wanted to be the one positive influence who could negate the negative in her life... She has so much potential and it's seriously tragic that she has so much damage... I really don't think people would understand.

And people have similar stories and can kind of relate, but obviously every situation is unique in their own rights. I just wish people could feel and see the things I have with her. It's just a shame I couldn't get things to work

thanks for that