THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL SUBJECT HERE . . .

@Frank Apisa,

So, this is a thread about Frank?

I doubt it.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The upthumbs are amusing (look at this page for example) but they aren't very consequential.

The personal attacks, vendettas and name calling are much more damaging to rational discussion on interesting or important topics.

I honestly do not look at the "thumbs" feature...and I consider it a net negative for the site. I've seen posts telling of "Happy Birthday" being thumbed up or thumbed down.

The feature has no real meaning...and is used the way some of these people are suggesting...like kindergarten kids in a sandbox fight.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Sustained back-and-forth personal insults that dominate the discussion are a problem, yes, but done sparingly, I think it's probably inevitable.

Quote:

I have a negative response to something someone says... how is this their responsibility?

It's not until they establish a pattern of delighting in pissing people off.

Quote:

If posters in a public forum have to censor sincerely held beliefs because other posters might respond negatively... how is reasoned discussion possible?

Is not self-censorship part and parcel of everyday conversations? I call it tact. There are usually offensive and unoffensive ways to express the same idea.

Quote:

Are you saying that no one should express an opinion that might offend you?

Obviously not. But ideas themselves don't offend me. I can just analyze them as strong or weak. It's true that the written form of a language is relatively lacking in prosodic elements that aid communication in the spoken form, but it is nevertheless usually possible to express disagreement with an idea without offending the person who expressed it, I think. We do it all the time with our friends and acquaintances in real life, don't we? If someone persists in posting in a personally insulting way, I don't see why s/he can't be called out on it, even if it means responding with the occasional, not sustained, personal retort.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Frank Apisa wrote:

There certainly are a lot of people here without the guts to actually name names...and cite what they are pissing and moaning about.

Well, you're not on my list of trolls, for whatever that's worth.

3 Replies

@Kolyo,

Kolyo wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

There certainly are a lot of people here without the guts to actually name names...and cite what they are pissing and moaning about.

Well, you're not on my list of trolls, for whatever that's worth.

I've got Frank on Ignore, but am I the only one who noticed the irony in the statement of his that you quoted? Wink

Edit:
Not irony. Self-contradiction, maybe. Something. Doing the thing he's complaining about.

2 Replies

@FBM,

Maybe. I didn't notice the irony. Sorry. Confused

EDIT: Okay, I posted this before your edit.

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Quote:

I've discovered that in the case of the worst trolls, personal attacks don't do a shitload of good anyway.

That's so true Kolyo. Slinging cruel personal insults at someone you disagree with rarely persuades them to see things your way.

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Kolyo wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

There certainly are a lot of people here without the guts to actually name names...and cite what they are pissing and moaning about.

Well, you're not on my list of trolls, for whatever that's worth.

Glad I am not, Kolyo. I am NOT a troll.

Actually, I think there are very few real trolls here...although there are plenty of very, very rude individuals who constantly vent their anger through their rudeness.

I occasionally am rude myself...I acknowledge that, but I attempt to keep that to a minimum...and try mostly to be respectful, reasonable and courteous. I am also, however, very determined...and do not relent simply because my take on things is unpopular.

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@maxdancona,

It also drives off the more impressionable people who are posting their honest, if controversial, opinions, but who would be open to hearing your own argument as well.

Trolls are thick-skinned. They survive the onslaught.

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@FBM,

FBM wrote:

Kolyo wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

There certainly are a lot of people here without the guts to actually name names...and cite what they are pissing and moaning about.

Well, you're not on my list of trolls, for whatever that's worth.

I've got Frank on Ignore, but am I the only one who noticed the irony in the statement of his that you quoted?

Edit:
Not irony. Self-contradiction, maybe. Something. Doing the thing he's complaining about.

You may have me on IGNORE, FBM...but you are not ignoring me. You seem at times obsessed with me.

In any case, what do you see as self-contradictory in what I wrote?

0 Replies

@Kolyo,

Kolyo wrote:

Maybe. I didn't notice the irony. Sorry.

EDIT: Okay, I posted this before your edit.

There was no irony...or self-contradiction. I named names!

1 Reply

@FBM,

Quote:

If someone persists in posting in a personally insulting way, I don't see why s/he can't be called out on it, even if it means responding with the occasional, not sustained, personal retort.

This happens all of the time. Every single thread with the slightest bit of disagreement is devolving into petty personal insults. Pick a thread... it is endemic.

Personal insults don't get called out, they get praised and they usually draw support from allies. Look at how many times someone posts something that is clearly a personal insult and people pile on. No one calls these out.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Like the difference between a cliche and a clique.

That's water under the bridge Miss Toad.

Can someone upthumb my joke... I thought it was clever.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Yes. You did name names. I just didn't want to edit my post a second time.

1 Reply

@Kolyo,

Kolyo wrote:

Yes. You did name names. I just didn't want to edit my post a second time.

Ah. I couldn't see that. My bad. Never mind.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
If someone persists in posting in a personally insulting way, I don't see why s/he can't be called out on it, even if it means responding with the occasional, not sustained, personal retort.

This happens all of the time. Every single thread with the slightest bit of disagreement is devolving into petty personal insults. Pick a thread... it is endemic.

Personal insults don't get called out, they get praised and they usually draw support from allies. Look at how many times someone posts something that is clearly a personal insult and people pile on. No one calls these out.

I do see the problem, yes. If I support someone's insult, it's briefly and due to what I perceive as self-defense against trolling or intellectual dishonesty. I stay out of the long-term grudge bouts. I think the only thing I can do about it is to not be the kind of poster I dislike interacting with.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
Like the difference between a cliche and a clique.

That's water under the bridge Miss Toad.

Can someone upthumb my joke... I thought it was clever.

I will if it makes you happy, but not because it's funny. Let me know what you want regarding the thumbs up.

0 Replies

@Kolyo,

He's on mine. I've read his opinion about belief or not on gods something like seventy thousand times. Space taker. I exaggerate, but not by much.

On subjects, I'll say rape by a hair.

0 Replies

@FBM,

FBM wrote:

maxdancona wrote:

Quote:
If someone persists in posting in a personally insulting way, I don't see why s/he can't be called out on it, even if it means responding with the occasional, not sustained, personal retort.

This happens all of the time. Every single thread with the slightest bit of disagreement is devolving into petty personal insults. Pick a thread... it is endemic.

Personal insults don't get called out, they get praised and they usually draw support from allies. Look at how many times someone posts something that is clearly a personal insult and people pile on. No one calls these out.

I do see the problem, yes. If I support someone's insult, it's briefly and due to what I perceive as self-defense against trolling or intellectual dishonesty. I stay out of the long-term grudge bouts. I think the only thing I can do about it is to not be the kind of poster I dislike interacting with.

Unfortunately, you are that kind of poster, FBM.

You pretend to be ignoring me...but you are doing anything but ignoring me. And you pretend to be bothered by me yelling (or emphasizing endlessly) when I have assured you that I am neither yelling nor emphasizing endlessly.

I have attempted to be reasonable and courteous with you in the past...although I am at a point where that is becoming difficult for me.

You gripe...and insult in subtle...but no less insulting ways. And you do it often.

You can go ahead and respond to this...I doubt anyone here thinks you actually are ignoring me.

0 Replies

I don't consider frank a troll. I just no longer follow his posts, re religion and evolution.

2 Replies

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