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Baseball, apostrophes, and spelling

 
 
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 09:53 am
At our gallery, we are in the process of hanging the work of an artist showing with us through the month of June. Almost all of his monoprints are about baseball. Two questions came up yesterday as I was typing the list of the titles of the prints:

1) how do you spell Comiskey Park? Comiskey, Cominsky, or Comisky?
I looked it up on Google and see all three spellings. I looked it up as a search in the New York Times and see Comiskey used once, and nothing for the others. By now they all look wrong to me. Anybody know for sure?

2) one of the pieces is titled "Murderers Row". It pictures two guys in a line with their bats. My business partner and I are tiffing about this. One of us thinks Murderers is not possessive and shouldn't have an apostrophe; the other thinks it is but that people often don't used the possessive in this situation. Any opinions?
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patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:01 am
Comiskey.

Murderers or murderers'? Not sure. Rogues' gallery or rogues gallery? Not sure. But I do know that it is peanute gallery and not peanut's gallery.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:13 am
Well, it's CHARLES "THE OLD ROMAN" COMISKEY

Seems, it is Murderers Row, although in this case I would write "Murderers' Row".
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:19 am
Re: Baseball, apostrophes, and spelling
ossobuco wrote:
2) one of the pieces is titled "Murderers Row". It pictures two guys in a line with their bats. My business partner and I are tiffing about this. One of us thinks Murderers is not possessive and shouldn't have an apostrophe; the other thinks it is but that people often don't used the possessive in this situation. Any opinions?


I think this one could go either way depending on how you veiw the ussage. If it is a row of various murderers then it'd be "Murderers Row" - i.e. more than one murderer.

If the row belongs to a bunch on murderers then it'd be "Murderer's Row" (i.e. a street controlled by thugs might be called Murderer's Row).

Personally, I think in your case I'd opt for the 1st choice. I'm assuming what you have a a row of pictures, etc.. of various murderers so it doesn't belong to them but is a row of pictures/stories of several.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:27 am
It's one picture with, if you follow me, two baseball uniformed legs, a bat, two uniformed legs, a bat. The "murderers" are in a row, lined up at batting practice, for example.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:35 am
Oh, and thank you all re the Comiskey...
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:54 am
According to Sports Illustrated, it's Murderers' Row. See: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/baseball/mlb/02/27/yankees.lineups.alltime/

Same result from the Baseball Hall of Fame: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/history/2002/1927_murderers_row.htm
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 03:03 pm
A lot of Chicagoans called it "Cominski" park. Second City had a great skit about passengers asking a bus driver if the bus went to "Cominski Park" or "Soldiers Field" or "O'Hara Airport," and the bus driver eventually becoming so infuriated at the mistakes that he goes nuts.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 08:19 pm
I lived in Evanston for five years when I was a child, and I wondered if it had an N too. The artist/ball player spelled it wrong yesterday (Comisky) and right today on some more of his writing about the work. And today he added an apostrophe to the Murderers Row, but in the wrong place. Not to natter about him, his work is sharp and his writing is sharp, and I didn't know these answers for sure myself. And google wasn't helping much!

The bus driver story is funny...
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Eos
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 09:52 pm
It must be Murderers' Row.

Look:

Murderer's Row means a row of one murderer.

Murderers' Row means a row of more than one murderer.

Murderers Row means either that you cannot punctuate and are afraid to try, or that you mean 'row' in the british verb sense - 'to row' means to fight, so, the murderers fight.
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Jun, 2004 10:47 pm
Okay, I'll out myself and say I was the one to insist, in the face of some dismissive verbiage from business partner/pal, on the apostrophe after the S in murderers. I do acknowledge that one sees the apostrophe not used in these situations.. but I think that follows from general apostrophe confusion.

I have to defend m' business partner as she was off on, well, it's not their row, it is the team owners (what?????)
Anyway I am not all so lame about grammar, given four or five chances to review something, and she and I disagree on only one thing, usually, and that is the 'serial comma'. Surely that is another whole subject upon which... I am correct.
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jespah
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2004 06:48 am
Murderers' Row refers to a number of Yankee ballplayers from 1927. It means they were the killers, e. g. they were the best players (Ruth, etc.). So the row does belong to them.
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Broadslad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Jun, 2004 07:19 am
A museum in London has a Rogues' Gallery.....possessive case. That is exactly how it is titled. So I would think your example is the same: Murderers' Row. A Row "belonging to" Murderers in effect. Evil or Very Mad
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 05:33 pm
You've gotten all the right answers, Rack of Lamb, especially regarding the row in your gallery about Murderers' Row.

Sloppy punctuation -- not to mention grammar and spelling -- is responsible for the confusion.

I was born with an obsessive-compulsive pluperfect Queen's English-gene, and still can't come to terms with those who don't have it.

Though as Merriam-Webster contends, dictionaries are a reflection of usage, which is why you can now find an entry for George Bush's pronunciation of 'nuclear'. Rolling Eyes :wink:
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ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 05:52 pm
No! Tell me, no!
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 06:00 pm
http://www.ballparks.com/baseball/american/comisk.htm

Go White Sox!
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 06:02 pm
ossobuco wrote:
I lived in Evanston for five years when I was a child, and I wondered if it had an N too. The artist/ball player spelled it wrong yesterday (Comisky) and right today on some more of his writing about the work. And today he added an apostrophe to the Murderers Row, but in the wrong place. Not to natter about him, his work is sharp and his writing is sharp, and I didn't know these answers for sure myself. And google wasn't helping much!

The bus driver story is funny...


I'm a Chicago native and have visted the ballpark on Chicago's SouthSide.
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 06:06 pm
Murderer's Row
Murderer's Row

1927 New York Yankees Home Field: Yankee Stadium
World Champions Hit: #1 R, BA
W - 110 L - 44 Pitch: #1 OR, ERA
Manager: Miller Huggins Def: #3t FA

The 1927 New York Yankees are widely recognized as the greatest team in baseball history. A year after a disappointing loss to St. Louis in the 1926 World Series, the Yankees came back with avengence. With a potent lineup known as Murderer's Row, New York outscored its opponents by nearly 400 runs and hit .307 as a team.

Babe Ruth set a single season mark with 60 homers. He alone hit more homers than any other American League team. The Sultan of Swat had plenty of help. Lou Gehrig had his first big season, batting .373 with 47 homers and a league leading 175 RBIs. Ruth's outfield mates, Earle Combs in center and Bob Meusel in left, it .356 and .337 respectively. Second year man Tony Lazzeri ranked third in the loop with 18 homers.

The pitching staff boasted four men who won 18 or more wins, led by Waite Hoyt at 22-7. Herb Pennock and Wilcy Moore gained 19 victories apiece while Urban Shocker added 18. The pitching staff complemented the dominant offense by claiming the league's three best ERAs. Moore, who pitched primarily in relief, led the way with a 2.28 mark.

With a 110-44 record, the Bronx Bombers ran away with the American League pennant, winning by 19 games. For an encore, they swept the Pittsburgh Pirates in the World Series. Another World Series championship followed in 1928.






Pos Player Bats AB H R HR RBI BA AL Rank
C Pat Collins R 251 69 38 7 36 .275
1B Lou Gehrig L 584 218 149 47 175 .373 #1 RBI; #2 R, HR; #3 BA
2B-SS-3B Tony Lazzeri R 570 176 92 18 102 .309 #3 HR
SS Mark Koenig B 526 150 99 3 62 .285
3B Joe Dugan R 387 104 44 2 43 .269
LF Bob Meusel R 516 174 75 8 103 .337
CF Earle Combs L 648 231 137 6 64 .356 #3 R
RF Babe Ruth L 540 192 158 60 164 .356 #1 HR, R; #2 RBI

2B Ray Morehart L 195 50 45 1 20 .256
C Johnny Grabowski R 195 54 29 0 25 .277
OF Cedric Durst L 129 32 18 0 25 .248
3B-SS Mike Gazella R 115 32 17 0 9 .278
C Benny Bengough R 85 21 6 0 10 .247
OF Ben Paschal R 82 26 16 2 16 .317

TOTAL: Team 5347 1644 975 158 908 .307
League Average 42117 12024 6094 439 5559 .285


Pitcher Throw G IP W L ERA PCT AL Rank
Waite Hoyt R 36 256 22 7 2.64 .759 #1t W; #2 ERA
Herb Pennock L 34 210 19 8 3.00 .704 #4t W
Urban Shocker R 31 200 18 6 2.84 .750 #3 ERA
Wilcy Moore R 50 213 19 7 2.28 .731 #1 ERA; #4t W
Dutch Ruether L 27 184 13 6 3.38 .684
George Pipgras R 29 166 10 3 4.12 .769
Myles Thomas R 21 89 7 4 4.85 .636

TOTAL: Team 110 44 3.20 .714
League Average 4.13
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Miller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 06:07 pm
Above source: Google
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Kara
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Jun, 2004 06:20 pm
Quote:
I was born with an obsessive-compulsive pluperfect Queen's English-gene, and still can't come to terms with those who don't have it.


LOL, PDiddie. Me, too. It is a burden. I used to think GWB's pronunciation of nuclear was funny. Then I decided that he had been told, he had read about it, and he has decided that HE WILL SAY IT THAT WAY ON PURPOSE and TO HELL WITH THE EATS-SHOOTS-AND-LEAVES CROWD.
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