Can we ever really know reality?

The latest neuro scientists question the existence of self, or the ghost in the machine. Infact the famous atheist Sam Harris states that self and free will are illusions. Some philosophers reject this but if true there is no self to probe what we call reality. The universe is determined moment by moment from its past.

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@magnocrat,

Quote:

The universe is determined moment by moment from its past.

This is not a mainstream scientific idea. It is generally accepted nowadays that quantum mechanics are probabilistic, and not determinist.

As for Sam Harris, if he is right, then he himself is a biological machine without free will, and therefore nothing that it says has any scientific or philosophic worth. It's just noise...

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A fully deterministic alternatively to the current STILL DOMINANT view of the standard model in QM:

MIT's replication of Yves Couder's wave-guided particle effect

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@Fil Albuquerque,

An awesome model Surprised

Even if its not a perfect representation of reality, it is amazing that it can replicate so many features of QM (no entanglement though). Now all we need to do is build the 2D hydrogen atom...

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@tomr,

Well it could be worse...we already have 2D galaxies don't we ? Very Happy

PS - Nonsense for nonsense who knows maybe things are bouncing in dark energy wave fields...spouting out nonsense is a good way of shooting cool ideas out of one's azz.

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The OP "Can we ever really know reality" I would replace with (if I havn't already done so) "Can we ever not know reality?". The difference, of course, is in the use of "KNOW". The OP refers, I believe, to theoretical (metaphysical or scientific) problematical knowing. I am referring to the immediate perception of ultimate Reality as it is revealed each experienced moment. I sense reality (in the sense of being one with it) without necessarily understanding it theoretically. Remember the phrase Tat tvam asi, That art thou. I AM my perceptions rather than something they happen to.

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@JLNobody,

All reality is subjective to the individual.

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@JLNobody,

Please accept my apologies; I think I have become a one trick pony.

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@cicerone imposter,

C.I.,Good. All reality, as experienced, is subjective to the individual; indeed it IS the individual.

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

C.I.,Good. All reality, as experienced, is subjective to the individual; indeed it IS the individual.

Ultimately, REALITY is objective...and not subjective. Whatever IS...IS.

The assertion that all reality is subjective to the individual...even if it were a CORRECT blind guess...would still mean that the objective REALITY is that all reality is subjective to the individual.

But it may not be correct...it is just a guess.

Adding the phrase "as experienced" does not change that.

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

Please accept my apologies; I think I have become a one trick pony.

Hi JL. Why would you say that?

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@Olivier5,

I'm please that my monomania is not obvious to you (it means I am not boring to everyone).
Another one-trick pony on these forums is our friend Frank. He has just expressed his "blind guess" that my "blind guess" regarding the subjective character of life is an objective fact. That I appreciate, but I consider his and my conclusions to be a bit more elegant that blind guesses; I see them as considered speculations.

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@JLNobody,

JLNobody wrote:

I'm please that my monomania is not obvious to you (it means I am not boring to everyone).
Another one-trick pony on these forums is our friend Frank.

As I participate in many, many discussions here...I think the description "one-trick pony" does not apply to me...and, it happens, I also think it does not apply to you.

Quote:

He has just expressed his "blind guess" that my "blind guess" regarding the subjective character of life is an objective fact.

Actually, I didn't.

What I did say was,

"Ultimately, REALITY is objective...and not subjective. Whatever IS...IS.

The assertion that all reality is subjective to the individual...even if it were a CORRECT blind guess...would still mean that the objective REALITY is that all reality is subjective to the individual."

I also noted that adding "as experienced" does not change that dynamic.

Quote:

That I appreciate, but I consider his and my conclusions to be a bit more elegant that blind guesses; I see them as considered speculations.

Mine is not a guess at all.

Yours is...and I feel comfortable describing it to be a blind guess.

If you want them to be considered "speculation" of any kind...you really need to work on your wording.

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@JLNobody,

When you get as repetitive as Frank, you'll have reason to worry. But you're not there yet.

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@Frank Apisa,

Again and I agree with your statement, that whatever it is it is, you are disproving your claim that you do not know anything about the nature of reality. What it is it is is not a blind guess per se.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Again and I agree with your statement, that whatever it is it is, you are disproving your claim that you do not know anything about the nature of reality.

Stop paraphrasing me...and then mocking what you invent, Fil.

My statement was: I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

I do not!

Deal with that.

You might try by telling me if you know the true nature of the REALITY of existence.

Quote:

What it is it is is not a blind guess per se.

I have no idea of what you are saying in this comment.

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@Frank Apisa,

Didn't you assert "whatever it is it is" ?
I can quote you directly probably from more then 100 times on that one...
This is a claim (doesn't matter how abstract) at an objective knowledge statement about facts regarding reality. What else ?

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@Fil Albuquerque,

I could go on either about the phrasing:
"I do not know the nature of reality"
Which implies:

First of all you assume the existence of such a state of affairs as "I", and "not knowing", per se things, bed rock for the claim to make sense.

or:

"whatever it is it is"
Again, you assume a reality, you must. Otherwise you couldn't even make any question about whatever...

Thus you must conclude that you have objective knowledge at least about some things in reality like, not knowing what is the true nature of reality...

Don't you worry the contradiction is not yours...Socrates had the same epiphany long ago...and no one solved yet...so this is not a critic to "you" Frank...just making you think about what it implies.

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@Fil Albuquerque,

Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Didn't you assert "whatever it is it is" ?

Actually, I said: Whatever IS...IS.

Do you have a problem with that...or do you disagree with it in any way?

[uoite]
I can quote you directly probably from more then 100 times on that one...
This is a claim (doesn't matter how abstract) at an objective knowledge statement about facts regarding reality. What else ?
[/quote]

I am saying that whatever REALITY is...it IS.

It is a tautology.

What is your point?

Quote me...and tell me what you problem is with what I have said.

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@Frank Apisa,

Is there a difference on the meaning of the EXACT quote from my texting of your quote ? Point me to it.

It seems to me you are stalling and that is not nice nor proper behaviour.

1 Reply

Can we ever really know reality?

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