1 in 5 women get raped?

Reply Sat 23 May, 2015 11:15 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
As far as I know the Duggars are a close and happy family that tries to do good and succeeds a lot of the time. If true that would be a win.

And the oldest girl, Who has done a lot of work in her young life, does not want to leave the home, she just wants a car.

Does anyone know different?

EDIT: as the Christian faith in this country continues to die what happens to the remaining Christians? Are they the new jews, available for abuse on any whim? I am beginning to think yes. The so called advanced human named the American liberal will be just as evil as any plantation owner who ever had a nigger whipped, and any American who ever killed a half breed. Nothing changes.
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 02:42 am
the American liberal will be just as evil as any plantation owner who ever had a nigger whipped, and any American who ever killed a half breed. Nothing changes.
But they nearly ran out of Indians and dem niggers is getting more and more uppity so they had to come up with anti-Christian propaganda . They were always anti-Catholic anyways so it just needed extending a little .
0 Replies
bobsal u1553115
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 07:09 am
Comments on Josh Duggar from a victim/survivor of sexual molestation

Unfortunately, I know more than I'd like about sexual molestation. It seems to be something that "runs" in my family (on the male side). Apparently my dad's father was a horrible, sick man in those regards and some of his male children learned that from him and carried on his "legacy" if you will. I was never, ever left alone with my grandfather. I understand now why anytime I was alone with him, someone would always come looking for me. Suffice it to say, my grandfather was never my abuser and for that, I'm thankful but my aunts weren't so lucky and neither were his male children that were forced to watch his depravities.

One of the things I learned long ago--after 2 obviously failed suicide attempts--about being a victim of sexual molestation was talking about what happened, without shame, freed me in many ways. If I allowed the shame to eat at me, then my abuser still had a hold on me. I also refuse to accept my abusers' apology. That's all about making him feel better, not me and I don't want him to feel better about what he did--I want him to remember every single day that what he did was wrong and damaging. Josh Duggar's apology, if you read it, is all about him and the damage his behavior would have on his life. Never mind the very young girls he preyed upon and sexually abused, if he continued down that path, it would ruin his life. Nary a thought for his sisters' lives or the girl who wasn't a family member.

As far as myself, I'm pretty much over being molested. I have trust issues with males I don't know (but once I figure out the guy isn't out to hurt me, I'm cool--sadly that's how I live my life). I'm a lesbian (fairly sure I was born that way and not "made" that way as my parents sometimes like to think) and I haven't had a relationship in over 10 years. Even though I'm not attracted to the gender that abused me, it still affects my romantic relationships and my view of myself in general. But, yeah, I'm pretty much over it (that's a bit of tongue and cheek, there).

I've seen various comments about Josh Duggar's apologies and his asking for forgiveness. Apparently, for some, that makes it okay. He's atoned. No harm, no foul. From my viewpoint, in my head I'm thinking, damned if it isn't always about the abuser and not the abused and atonement isn't the same as getting help or facing the consequences for your actions.

Another thing I've seen about Duggar, and something I get irrationally crazed about, is when I read or hear people say, "But he was a kid too!" My abuser started grooming me when I was about 5, which would have made him 11. I don't recall exactly when the first sexual contact took place but I know it ended when I was 12 and he was 18--and some 32 years later, those abuses are still burned into my memory like they happened yesterday.

However, my deepest scar (once I got over the whole blaming myself thing and being used as a sexual outlet by a relative) is when I finally got the courage, at the age of 18, to tell my parents about it happening. My abuser was going to come for a visit and I wasn't comfortable being in the same house with him (I was still in high school, thus living at home). Unfortunately, my parents didn't believe me. For the life of me I can't figure out why I'd lie about it but I ended up staying elsewhere while he visited because they wouldn't ask him to stay at a hotel and I didn't feel safe staying in the same house with him.

This has damaged my relationship with my parents because of this, especially after my abuser was arrested and found guilty of molesting his step-daughters (which is when they finally believed what I told them--I was in my 30s by then, so how many children had he molested in the meantime?). I'm in my early 40's now and I don't talk with my parents often because they should have protected me and believed me when I told them and they didn't. And though I've told my father repeatedly I don't want to hear about this person, he still passes on information, ignoring my requests. My way of handling things may not be the healthiest but it keeps me sane, so that's all that matters.

As far as the Duggar girls go, they may not be manifesting any signs of what happened to them now (and may never) but they could easily show up in their romantic relationships later on. They may not even realize that their issues are related to what happened to them, especially if they've been taught that the molestation was their fault in some way. Meanwhile, Josh Duggar gets lauded by some for his "courage" to come forward and admit his "mistakes." Personally, I've always thought of a mistake as something that happens once, not repeatedly. The attitude is sickeningly reminiscent of the old "Boys will be boys" adage. No, not all boys look at their 4 year old sister and think, "Yeah, she's a good target of my sexual lust" and then act out on it. That's not a mistake, that's a behavior.

Just to be clear, at the time of my sexual abuse, I had tons of male cousins that were older than me, whom I spent plenty of time with and none of them ever made any "advances" of that nature towards me, so, you know, saying "Boys will be boys" doesn't apply and isn't fair to most boys who know perfectly well that a small child is not a good source of sexual relief.

So I have no sympathy for Josh Duggar, just as I have no sympathy for my abuser and I give no quarter to those that sympathize with the abuser and not the abused. I don't think his apology was any more sincere than my abusers. I'm also skeptical that the abuse was contained to these few incidences and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he still has these urges. I'm sure that skepticism comes from the same place that my trust issues of men come from; my sexual abuser.

Anyway, I was encouraged to expand on a comment and share this as an OP, so here it is.
0 Replies
bobsal u1553115
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 07:16 am
Josh Duggar Admits Molestation, Resigns from Family Research Council
Source: TMZ

Josh Duggar has resigned as Executive Director of the Family Research Council, acknowledging he sexually molested underage girls including some of his sisters, calling his conduct inexcusable.

Josh just told People, "Twelve years ago, as a young teenager. I acted inexcusably for which I am extremely sorry and deeply regret." He continues, "We spoke with authorities where I confessed my wrongdoing, and my parents arranged for me and those affected by my actions to receive counseling."

The molestations occurred in 2002 and 2003, when he was 14. He fondled the genitals and breasts of the girls, some of whom were sleeping.

Josh's wife Anna says he confessed his "past teenage mistakes" to her 2 years before he asked her to marry him.

The incidents were not reported to police until 2006, and the statute of limitations has now long since passed. But Josh says he believes God has shown him mercy and given him redemption.

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/21/josh-duggar-admits-molestation-statement-resigns-confessed-sex-scandal-wife/#ixzz3aohZ5Cl6

Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2015/05/21/josh-duggar-admits-molestation-statement-resigns-confessed-sex-scandal-wife/
0 Replies
bobsal u1553115
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 07:28 am
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 07:59 am
@bobsal u1553115,
Expanding the meaning of rape to cover innocent acts between consenting adults does not in any manner help real victims of rape and or sexual abused.
bobsal u1553115
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 08:47 am
What are you talking about? Sex between a man planning to get a woman drunk enough to have sex when she would otherwise not have sex, and a woman who would not otherwise consent to sex IS rape.
bobsal u1553115
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 08:49 am

Five F*cked-up Evangelical Christian Teachings Which Set JimBob & Michelle’s Family Up For the Josh Duggar Molestation Disaster
How did this happen?

By Vyckie Garrison / AlterNet
May 23, 2015


Bob and Michelle Duggar
Photo Credit: via Wikipedia

Mega-family superstar, Josh Duggar, has resigned his position as lobbyist for the Family Research Council after In Touch Magazine published a police report confirming that JimBob and Michelle Duggar of TLC’s “19 Kids and Counting” fame’s oldest son confessed to molesting several female minors in 2002 - 2003.

According to the 2006 police report, Duggar family patriarch, JimBob actively covered up Josh’s confession and neglected to notify authorities or provide professional help for Josh and/or his victims. To make matters worse, Josh’s pregnant wife, Anna Duggar, believes her husband is a changed man and continues - along with the couple’s three young children - to live with an admitted child sex offender. And to top it all off, the Duggar family publicly declared that God used the tragic situation to draw their family closer to Him.

Jesus Friggin’ Christ, what a mess! As a former Quiverfull believer, I recognize in this Duggar family debacle several essential beliefs which are widely held amongst fundamentalist Christians which shackle True Believer’s™ common sense to an outdated and irrelevant god-myth and seriously impair their ability to make sound moral choices.

#1 - The Duggars are “Pro-life.”

Michelle and JimBob Duggar take very seriously the Evangelical “pro-life” teachings which have influenced the couple to have way too many children:

God allows or causes miscarriages. One of the key verses from which fundamentalists get their “Choose Life” catch phrase comes from a passage in Deuteronomy 30 which promises God’s blessing for the faithful. The blessing which God promises is a multiplication of crops, cattle, and children. The passage also warns of judgment and curses for those who disobey: specifically, God promises death … including death of “thy seed”, i.e., miscarriage and stillbirth.

When Michelle’s second pregnancy ended in miscarriage, the Duggars believed that God must be displeased with them and concluded that it was their use of oral contraception which made The Big Guy so mad. So they tossed out the birth control in favor of “trusting the Lord with their family planning.”

Birth control is sinful. Another common teaching in Evangelical churches is that hormonal birth control such as oral contraception causes “micro-abortions” and early miscarriages (which believers also consider abortions). Many Christians take this a step further to say that ALL forms of birth control, including Natural Family Planning are sinful because controlling a woman’s fertility is tantamount to “playing God,” by thwarting The Big Guy’s prerogative to determine when and if a new soul with potential for eternal life comes into existence.

It is this belief which drives the unbridled proliferation of Duggar babies: 19 kids of their own, and, now that the older children have married, in JimBob’s words, “The multiplication process has begun.”

In 2002, when the alleged molestations occurred, JimBob and Michelle had 14 children aged 14 and under. Is anyone surprised that young Josh was not supervised adequately to prevent his access to five young girls? As a former Quiverfull mom who birthed 7 children in 17 years, even I cannot imagine how overwhelmed and ill-equipped Michelle must have been simply keeping up with the basic maintenance of her young brood. It’s no wonder she wasn’t attentive enough to her children to know what Josh was doing, practically under her nose, for years.

I am in no way making excuses for Michelle’s negligence. My point here is to say that contemporary evangelical Christianity sets “biblical families” up for this sort of disaster. Let me tell you more …

#2 - The Duggars believe that, under God, the FAMILY is the highest authority, particularly Daddy.

There is a teaching amongst Evangelicals in which matters of discipline must be addressed according to God’s order of authority which goes like this: God, Family (within the family, the Father has ultimate authority), Church elders, Church family, Extended family, All Like-minded believers, Satan, and finally (maybe) … the Civil Magistrate.

This explains why, according to the police report, JimBob Duggar’s first response when he learned of Josh’s sexual crimes was not to call the police or social services. Instead, the Duggars decided to handle the situation “in-house,” and later consulted with the elders in his church. The Duggars sent Josh to a program that involved hard physical labor and “counseling” by an untrained family friend. Even when JimBob and the church elders did eventually take Josh to the “civil magistrate,” they only paid a visit to an Arkansas State Trooper, Jim Hutchens, a personal friend of the Duggars who gave Josh “a very stern talk” and took no official action.

Here’s why fundamentalists only consult law enforcement officials as a last resort:

#3 - The Duggars frame dysfunction, abuse, and psychopathology in terms of sin, repentance, forgiveness, and grace … oh, and DEMONS.

I’ve written before about the way popular Christian teachings about love and relationships actually provide chapter and verse justification for “dysfunctional game playing and crazy-making head trips.”

Like the majority of fundamentalist Christians, JimBob and Michelle harbor a grave mistrust of pretty much every respected, evidence-based approach to behavioral issues: secular psychology is “spiritually dangerous,” modern medicine, therapy, and pharmaceuticals are equated with “witchcraft,” and abusive, criminal behavior is often attributed to “a heart issue,” or even demonic influence or possession.

The sad fact is, the Duggar family called Josh’s sexual abuse of minor girls a “teenage mistake” and they naively believe that because the boy repented, humbled himself before God, and asked forgiveness, God’s “grace, mercy, and redemption” have changed Josh into a new man who can be trusted not to molest minor children.

Anna Duggar, Josh’s wife and mother of his three young children (with another baby on the way), is standing behind her husband, calling him, “a man who knows how to be a gentleman and treat a girl right.” Apparently, her immersion in Christian culture influenced Anna to interpret the revelation of Josh’s “past mistakes” (which she says he confessed to her and her parents two years before he proposed to her) through the “sin, forgiveness, and redemption” narrative rather than giving credence to the prevailing understanding that sex offenders rarely (never?) change.

Christians who trust in repentance and forgiveness of sins when it comes to abusive situations will PRAY for the abuser rather than PROTECT the abuse victim.

#4 - The Duggars embrace Evangelical Christian teachings on “modesty.”

According to the Duggars, female bodies are a source of irresistible temptation to boys and men. Upon learning of their oldest son’s fondling and groping of the younger girls, JimBob and Michelle’s first reaction was undoubtedly to question the girls’ - as well as their own - culpability rather than immediately believe it was Josh himself who has a problem.

Did the girls, however innocently, run around the house in their nightgowns? Had Michelle failed to keep the bathroom door closed when the little girls were bathing?

In Quiverfull homes, the onus of sexual indiscretion always lies primarily with the father for failing to adequately protect his daughters, and secondarily with the girl or woman for failing to avail herself of adequate protection of clothing and/or her parents’ supervision.

Was 14-year-old Josh actually responsible for his behavior? Strange as it may seem, JimBob and Michelle would definitely have had serious doubts as to whether or not their son could help himself. Rather than recognizing immediately that Josh needed professional help, the Duggars were more likely to believe that demonic forces were at work … the Devil made him do it.

#5 - The Duggars believe that a benevolent God is intimately involved in every aspect of their lives and He is working all circumstances out for their ultimate good.

JimBob and Michelle Duggar live in a fantasy world of their own making, and they believe that, just like in the fairy tales, they all will live happily ever after. While confessing to not being a perfect family, and admitting their family faces challenges and struggles every day, the Duggars are convinced “that dark and difficult time caused [the family] to seek God like never before,” which in their minds, means the molestation really wasn’t so bad, and in fact, has turned out to be a kind of blessing in disguise since each one of them “drew closer to God,” as a result of “something so terrible.”

According to the “eternally happy ending” story which the Duggars are telling themselves, the little girls whom Josh allegedly groped and fondled are not victims or even survivors of sexual abuse, but are instead equated with the “highly favored” Old Testament Joseph whose brothers sold him into slavery: What Satan meant for evil, God used for good.

Suffering in this life is insignificant - even trifling - compared to the faith-strengthening and soul-saving purpose of trials which will be richly rewarded with eternal life in Heaven … so praise the ******* Lord for whatever misery He sends to you and your children.

The Duggar delusion is so deeply ingrained that even in the midst of this horrifying revelation, JimBob and Michelle are hoping that the onlooking world will be inspired by their family’s witness: “We hope somehow the story of our journey — the good times and the difficult times — cause you to see the kindness of God and learn that He can bring you through anything.”

Um … no, JimBob and Michelle, I don’t see the kindness of God. All I see is the most twisted and insidious spiritual abuse which minimizes, rationalizes, and even glorifies the sexual assault of children.

Stop. Please, just stop. Quit trying to spin this situation into a pretty story. Do not attempt to salvage your “Reality” TV program. Go home and “focus on your family”: get some legitimate, professional help for yourselves and your children. You have a quiver full of kids counting on you to stop the delusion and self-deception. For their sakes, do not allow your legacy to be the prolific multiplication of mania.

Vyckie Garrison is a former adherent of the Quiverfull movement. She tells her story at her blog, “No Longer Quivering,” and has created the Spiritual Abuse Survivior Blog Network.
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 09:06 am
@bobsal u1553115,
What are you talking about? Sex between a man planning to get a woman drunk enough to have sex when she would otherwise not have sex, and a woman who would not otherwise consent to sex IS rape.

So a woman is a child and the man have a duty to made sure she does not drink too must before having sex????????

She can therefore enjoyed sex and as the same time then blamed the man for her own damn drinking and cry raped afterward?

Last night both my partner and I drunk at home and then went to bed and have sex, so by your theory I should or could be charge with rape?

All that is needed is a claimed by her that but for those drinks she would never had consented to having sex with me last night and I therefore raped her?

How is such silliness helpful in any manner in dealing with the real problems of rape and molesting?

Woman like men are totally responsibly for their own actions under the voluntary influence of drinks or drugs .

That included driving , deciding to hold up a 7/11 or having sex.
0 Replies
Reply Sun 24 May, 2015 11:44 am
@bobsal u1553115,
For the Josh Duggar Molestation Disaster

As a teenager, roughly 12-15, Josh touched a few girls without their permission. Not great, but not evil either. THis is sexual exploration, this is hormones run amuck. The correct response is compassion and education, not condemnation.
0 Replies
Below viewing threshold (view)
Reply Sun 29 May, 2016 01:02 am
Reply Sun 29 May, 2016 09:13 am

The 1 in 5 figure doesn't seem to be listed on this page. Is this organization being responsible by not repeating scientifically invalid statistics? I believe that rape and sexual violence is a problem that needs to be addressed in our society. This isn't the issue.

I have respect for RAINN. They have resisted the politics and stayed with their mission. Because of this, they have been very helpful to male victims of sexual violence (a group that too often gets overlooked).

My point is reacting with political ideology, rather than responding rationally with real facts, is a bad thing.
Reply Sun 29 May, 2016 09:48 am
no, but the 1 in 6 figure is
real facts: 9 out of 10 rape victims are female
we need to stop this. how? supporting the victims and finding the roots of the problem.
real facts: you are the one reacting with political ideology, focusing on the sole victim out of 10 to justify your believes and social and political ideology. The other 9 victims are female and you keep on giving them the cold shoulder by denying the unconfortable truth: a vast mayority of men consider women as an inferior and acted, enforced by that superiority, as a despicable human being
if its easier for you let´s fight agaisn´t sexual violence in general
let´s fight to get people to be considered, paid, treated and cared for whatever the color of the skin, the language or the gender
would you do that?
Reply Sun 29 May, 2016 07:49 pm
We seem to be having this discussion in two different threads.

Even if your statistic is correct, I feel strongly that a rape victim should be treated with the same support and care, and that every rape should be taken seriously and prosecuted. This has nothing to do with the gender of the victim or the perpetrator.

I also strongly disagree with you in your judgment that the "vast majority of men consider women as an inferior". In my experience, this is simply not true.

Are you really saying that the majority of men are "despicable human beings" (I maybe misunderstanding what you are trying to say?

You don't seem to have very much respect for men in general. I believe that men and women should be treated as equals and be given equal respect.

In the last part of your post you seem to be saying that men and woman should be given equal care... that I agree with completely.
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2016 12:54 am
no considering women as inferior is not being a despicable human being as you, as an intelligent human being, would´t have even consider if you were able to think clearly.
I have so much respect for men that i´m demanding you all to stop and analyze yourself cause i do trust you´ll noble enough to finally see the bad done
You have to accept that when talking about the poorly situation of sin casta families in india, somebody with a salary that barely makes him to the end of the month here in the first world, begins to complain about how hateful and discriminatory we are that we´re focusing on fighting for indian people and not fighting for him IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2016 09:03 am
Who said anything about considering women as inferior?

My point is that rape victims should be treated with sympathy and dignity. The gender doesn't matter.

Somehow you are confusing the words "equal" and "inferior". If men and women are treated the same, that is "equal". The word "inferior" implies that one gender is being treated worse than the other gender.

Men and women, and particularly male and female rape victims, should be treated equally. Giving rape victims services or support based on their gender is not equality.

Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2016 07:53 pm
and again you have completely ignore my answer and went back to you obsessive argument....
Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2016 09:06 pm
You aren't making any sense (and you are still getting upthumbs which I find quite amusing). I don't know why you are talking about whether "women are inferior". I don't believe that women are inferior and I don't think you do either. I have never said any such thing. There is no reason for you to even bring this up. We are in completely agreement on this point. You are making a straw man argument.

This thread is about statistics which I claim are being exaggerated in support of a political narrative. I don't think your recent posts don't fit with the discussion.

Let's look at the points I have made that are relevant to the topic.

1) Rape is horrible and intolerable. We as a society should take rape, and rape prevention seriously.

2) Rape victims should be cared for, supported and treated with care and dignity. This is true whether the rape victims are male or female.

3) The 1 in 5 number and the 1 in 6 number are scientifically invalid. They are politically motivated and the the studies are non-scientific. There are several problems including selection bias and poorly worded questions that don't actually ask respondents if they are rape victims.

4) Men and women are equal, and they should be treated as equals by society. There are some legitimate areas we still need to work on. (But this is really irrelevant to the topic of this thread).

Your recent posts have included a whole bunch of incendiary slogans that get lots of upthumbs. In the echo chamber of Able2know, slogans will do that. Many people here love ideological slogans. But the relevant points on this topic are clear. I think we agree completely on #1. I am not sure you agree with point #2.

Point #3 is relevant, but I don't believe it matters to point #2. The fact that rape victims should be supported doesn't depend on how many there are.

And point #4 is irrelevant to the topic, but I will mention it just because you seem think it is important. But, anyway I think you agree with me on this point.

Please respond to what I am actually saying rather then making stuff up.

Reply Mon 20 Jun, 2016 09:37 pm
i was answering to your questions: i gave you statistics you from a source you admitted to consider quite reliable but kept on denying the truth they reveal.... machismo its defined as the men´s belief that women are inferiors
statistics can´t be non-scientific but erroneous or manipulated... that said, who are you to deny the many statistic studies results about that issue from different and well known organizations but claim yours are the correct ones?
if we are to talk about incendiary slogans, yours should be talked about first: eg statistics are being manipulated by ideologic and political influences or Feminists are egoists radical and heartless individuals who don´t give a **** about abused children at all

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