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Will we ever learn how to separate life from illusion

 
 
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2014 03:57 pm
I doubt it because we don't accept our senses as being real and they are our
only contact with the real world.
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Type: Question • Score: 7 • Views: 3,620 • Replies: 25
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2014 04:06 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Not true; most people believe in their personal perceptions as being real.

The 'real world' is an oxymoron because everyone has their own subjective perception of what they believe to be facts and reality. Most of us suffer from some degrees of 'illusion' both mental and physical.

The brain works in mysterious ways, and there's not much we can do about them as it relates to our reality.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2014 10:42 pm
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:
Will we ever learn how to separate life from illusion


A lot of people will tell you that life is illusion.
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Oct, 2014 11:33 pm
@Rickoshay75,
I guess we'll just have to ask Frank.
0 Replies
 
Lordyaswas
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 12:39 am
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:

I doubt it because we don't accept our senses as being real and they are our
only contact with the real world.


Are you asking or telling?

I accept my senses as real, especially when I cut my finger or try to enter the toilet immediately after Uncle Joe's been in there at Christmas.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 03:59 am
Why do you doubt the evidence of your senses? Do you step out into the street when you see a car approaching because you don't trust your vision? Are you goofy, or do you just think yourself philosophically clever?
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:09 am
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:
I doubt it because we don't accept our senses as being real and
they are our only contact with the real world.
Do u care to offer any proof of this ?
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:13 am

It sounds like Setanta is looking for a fight with Rickoshay.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:15 am
@Rickoshay75,
Rickoshay75 wrote:

I doubt it because we don't accept our senses as being real and they are our
only contact with the real world.


That is just the thing, since all we have is our senses then what can you expect to base our interactions with reality? We have no method of relating to reality outside our senses.

So to me saying our sense experience is real or not is totally and utterly irrelevant. If reality is real or not is meaningless. All we get is sense data interpreted by our brains.

The important aspect is that we have an abundant amount consistency between individuals where we can accept facts about reality to be true. This makes reality reliable rather than completely subjective experiences. If reality didn't have this consistency then we wouldn't be able to develop any systems at all for relating to each other. Although many things we come up with are arbitrary, like units of length, weight or time, the fact that there is dimensions, mass and time makes it possible to begin with.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:35 am
@Krumple,
Rickoshay75 wrote:
I doubt it because we don't accept our senses as being real and they are our
only contact with the real world.
Krumple wrote:
That is just the thing, since all we have is our senses then what can you expect
to base our interactions with reality? We have no method of relating to reality outside our senses.

So to me saying our sense experience is real or not is totally and utterly irrelevant.
If reality is real or not is meaningless. All we get is sense data interpreted by our brains.
We get THAT, in a state of slumber. Yes?
When we have a particularly nasty nightmare,
do we BELIEVE IT before we awaken???????
Was that our accepted reality??

Krumple wrote:
The important aspect is that we have an abundant amount consistency between individuals
where we can accept facts about reality to be true.
Like the Earth being flat,
with the Sun in orbit?



Krumple wrote:
This makes reality reliable rather than completely subjective experiences. If reality didn't have this consistency then we wouldn't be able to develop any systems at all for relating to each other. Although many things we come up with are arbitrary, like units of length, weight or time, the fact that there is dimensions, mass and time makes it possible to begin with.
An ordinary hi school science teacher will assure us that our perception of reality is in error.
Objects that we see as being solid r almost all open spaces.

Our perception of radiated energy is very limited.
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:41 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Like the Earth being flat,
with the Sun in orbit?


Not having all the data before a conclusion is made can sometimes end up with a false conclusion. So what? Just because something is experienced it doesn't mean that it is accurate always to make conclusions about that experience.

The funny thing is you actually proved my point. The fact that something is accepted means that multiple people agree with the conclusion because it fits their sense data.

If reality was not consistent then people would never agree on anything ever.
0 Replies
 
Krumple
 
  0  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:45 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
An ordinary hi school science teacher will assure us that our perception of reality is in error.
Objects that we see as being solid r almost all open spaces.

Our perception of radiated energy is very limited.



Once again this is coming to the wrong conclusion. Objects give us a sense of solidity because the strength of the repulsive force is enough to keep us from sinking into the ground or walking through walls or putting your hand through a table.

When you are ignorant of the repulsive force and you are not aware that atoms are made up of mostly empty space except for this force that repels atoms then you would obviously arrive at the wrong conclusion.

In fact nothing ever touches anything at all. The repulsive force is so strong that no two objects ever actually touch.
Lustig Andrei
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 04:46 am
@OmSigDAVID,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
An ordinary hi school science teacher will assure us that our perception of reality is in error.
Objects that we see as being solid r almost all open spaces.

Our perception of radiated energy is very limited.


Excellent points. The problem with "common sense" is that we all seem to have it and it leads us completely astray. I mean, I can see that the earth is flat and that solid things are...well...solid. That's just common sense. And completely wrong-headed.
0 Replies
 
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 10:09 am
@Rickoshay75,
"WE"?
You, maybe.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 10:26 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Not true; most people believe in their personal perceptions as being real.

The 'real world' is an oxymoron because everyone has their own subjective perception of what they believe to be facts and reality. Most of us suffer from some degrees of 'illusion' both mental and physical.

The brain works in mysterious ways, and there's not much we can do about them as it relates to our reality.


I agree that our perceptions are our lives, but we can be influenced to change them by politicians and TV ads repeating same thing over and over again.
mark noble
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 10:32 am
@Rickoshay75,
Wrong - Never watch adverts.
Never listen to politicians.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 10:35 am
@Lustig Andrei,
Lustig Andrei wrote:

Rickoshay75 wrote:
Will we ever learn how to separate life from illusion


A lot of people will tell you that life is illusion.


True, but their illusions often become reality when they are frightened or in pain.
0 Replies
 
Rickoshay75
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 10:49 am
@Lordyaswas,
Lordyaswas wrote:

Rickoshay75 wrote:

I doubt it because we don't accept our senses as being real and they are our
only contact with the real world.


Are you asking or telling?

I accept my senses as real, especially when I cut my finger or try to enter the toilet immediately after Uncle Joe's been in there at Christmas.


Good point. Pain and other unpleasant feelings, including fear, will stop our illusions, some temporally, others long term.
0 Replies
 
Kylie123
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 12:22 pm
I rekon once we are to completly understand life outside the illusion and not fear it .
will be the day the soul leaves the body n continues its journey
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Oct, 2014 01:19 pm
@Krumple,

OmSigDAVID wrote:
An ordinary hi school science teacher will assure us that our perception of reality is in error.
Objects that we see as being solid r almost all open spaces.

Our perception of radiated energy is very limited.

Krumple wrote:
Once again this is coming to the wrong conclusion.
Objects give us a sense of solidity because the strength of the repulsive force is enough to keep us from sinking into the ground or walking through walls or putting your hand through a table.

When you are ignorant of the repulsive force and you are not aware that atoms are made up of mostly empty space except for this force that repels atoms then you would obviously arrive at the wrong conclusion.

In fact nothing ever touches anything at all. The repulsive force is so strong that no two objects ever actually touch.
Do u think this is news, Mr. Krumple ?
0 Replies
 
 

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