Union Labor: For or Against?

I'm not sure if its true any longer, but when I studied business administration about five lifetimes ago, we learned that union wages and benefits helped non-union laborers to improve their salaries and benefits. As for today, I still think it's necessary to protect the workers, generally speaking, because without the power of the union, the employer would treat its emplyoyees without regard to their interests. I can't complain about unions, because when I was a college student, I worked for the teamsters as a teletype biller, and made pretty decent wages.

Paid sick leave, 38 hour week, 4 weeks holidays a year-all benefits won by unions and now enjoyed by all Australian workers. Even those who've never paid a union fee in their life. Plus union members here earn on average $200 a week more than non-union employees in similar jobs. They're also involved in community issues, getting governments at all levels to take notice of things that community lobbying has failed to achieve.

We still have far too many workers killed on the job in construction & other industries in Oz. Imagine how much worse this would be without unions.

I believe unions are to blame for the exodus of many of our industries. I don't think a guy needs $20. an hour to sweep floors. I think unions inflate a worker's pay to silly levels.

IMO, unions are basically mob fronts, and do great harm to a country's economy. OSHA should answer to safety demands.

What's your opinion of what CEOs are paid, Sofia?

All those radical ideas about overtime after 40 hrs (in the US), OSHA, worker's compensation result from union efforts, not employer altruism. The ones I've belonged to - IAofM, Steelworkers, and IBEW have tended to be kind of petty and selfserving, but overall they have been good for the country.

Your points are well taken, Sophia, but the benefits outweigh the disadvantages, just in my opinion.

Maybe you'd prefer them not to be able to be afford to eat? Why would a lowly janitor need a luxuries like food and shelter?

I'm a confirmed union maid.

Sure, they suck sometimes - what and who doesn't?

However, anyone who believes there are no battles left, and that conditions cannot go backwards far more quickly than unionists inched and struggled and bled and died (and still do, in many countries) to get them where they are, is living in a fool's paradise - based on a few years of an atypical blip of relative comfort won by hard struggle.

Pay your dues.

Not a member ... :blushes:

But yes, great supporter. Employers have not been shown to spontaneously innovate and implement job safety measures, protection against instantaneous dismissal, employee councils, pension schemes, not to mention the wages themselves ... not for anyone except coveted managers and other top-white collar workers.

If it were up to the employers, those sweeping floors in factory halls would be paid $2,50 an hour, and forget about earplugs or whatever protective gear might be needed ... and if you complain, you're fired on the spot. Only protections against that kind of practice are either an extremely tight labour market (which is always a conjunctural thing, and besides tends to benefit the lowest-paid last and least of all) - or some kind of union power.

Having been on the management side of industry for a better part of my working life I understand and have dealt with the abuses of unions. However, having been on that side I also know the extent to which company mgmt will go to squeeze the employees. Unions are IMO a necessary evil.

au, Me too! I've worked in management most of my life, and have arrived at the same conclusion; unions are necessary evils to protect employees.

This is ridiculous.
There is a sliding scale of pay for jobs based on skill, education, and raises for time on the job. People begin in lower paying jobs, and move up based on their drive, seniority and skills acquired.

Unions pervert these scales by forcing mgmt to pay people much more than their skills, education... are worth. These incredibly inflated gouges HURT the industries that employ people in my country, and the result is the indutries pack up and move and EVERYONE is out of a job.

Wilso, I fought against a union that was trying to get a foothold in the company I worked for--and at the time, I held one of the lowest paying positions. I don't make my decisions on what is best for me--or someone else in the SHORT TERM-- but what is best for me, others and my nation's economy in the LONG TERM.

Fair wages for the work performed is the best way to handle it, IMO. As I said--human rights at work regarding safety issues is the perview of the OccupationalHealth and Safety Department. That is what OSHA is for. I don't know if there's an org like that in Australia. You really should take a minute and think before posting such nonsense. My career was focused on helping people, who were poor, and seeing that their rights were upheld. Its a cheap insult to insinuate I don't care about the poor, just because I think unions are bad for the overall economy.

Actually, the poor are hurt worse by manufacturing and textile industries leaving this country DUE to unions. There's not one answer to everything.

And organized crime is thickly intertwined in US unions.

Like AA, there was a need for unions back in the early days. I believe their effectiveness has ended.

olga--

I think the multimillion dollar salaries for CEOs are abhorrent!!!

Would take long here in Europe, and all police forces were on their tail, if such happened here.
Not to speak about the draconic jail sentences for organised crime(s)!


Unions outsite the USA are not only differently structured but have different rights and responsibilities than in the USA. Thus, IMHO; the situation can't be compared at all ... these days.

I thought that might be the case, Walter. To hear the Oz participants--their unions are doing very important work.

There must be a distinct difference.

Dunno.

You picked the most outrageous response of all the thread to react to -- but there's coupla reasonable Americans on this thread saying the unions "are doing very important work" of much the same kind in the US as well. Roger, au1929 and c.i. are not exactly raging lefties.

The difference between a government agency that polices work safety conditions and the like and unions is that a government agency answers to, well, the government. And the government, obviously (is the way it should be) represents the rights and interests of both workers and employers. And some governments tend to veer more towards protecting the employers while other governments veer more the other direction. In short, it might not be a good idea (and imho its been historically shown not to be such a good idea) to exclusively rely on the government to defend all of your rights. S good to have an organisation of yourself thats able to pull some leverage to make sure the government agency in question "stays the course", so to say, and doesnt get overruled too much by competing interests within the same government apparatus.

Question: is/are there an employers' association(s) in the US as well? We have 'em in Holland, one for big business one for small- and medium-sized businesses. Have plenty leverage too. They push this way, unions push that way, and sometimes they reach a compromise sooner than even the government got round to!

i'm all for unions. my old job was union, and that meant a living wage, adequate sick-time, decent benefits and protection from tyrannical type "A's" who would want to pile on duties such as lick the floors clean on top of my actual job. unions ensure workers some dignity and protection...

Some Oz unions have been very corrupt - the Painters and Dockers and branches of the Builders' Labourers Federation come to mind. Mind you, they also did lots to get their VERY badly treated and paid workers some sort of decent working life.

I like to call the union my doctor friends belong to, the Australian Medical Association, the Painters and Doctors. It pees them right off....