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The 'SOUL'. What is it?

Forums: Philosophy, Soul, Metaphysical Crap, The Soul
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One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 06:52 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Nope, wrong.

It's just an answer to another's blind guess.

You see, logic works this way. When Person A makes a claim, but does not prove it, it does not become a reality, a statistic, a system of ideologies or a consensus - it's just a claim. When Person B says "your claim has no proof", it's not a blind guess - it's an answer to a BLIND, SPINELESS, MYOPIC CLAIM.

IT'S CALLED "FACTUAL RELATION". When someone makes a claim, but does not back it up, the responsibility is not on someone else who says they have no proof. The person making a claim has to PROVE IT - not the person challenging the baseless claim.

Science > Opinion
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 07:17 pm
@One Eyed Mind,
Most "guesses" are not blind; there is usually some reason (valid or not) for the guess. When a choice is based on the flip of a coin, that's when guesswork is truly blind.
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 07:18 pm
@Frank Apisa,
So you agree that belief in gods can be based on experience?
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 07:19 pm
@JLNobody,
When you say a god exists, or a demon is under your bed, or the dog ate your homework, or the succubus is in your closet, but somehow you're still a virgin...

THAT'S THE DEFINITION OF MAKING A BLIND GUESS, INSTEAD OF COMING UP WITH LOGICAL EXPLANATIONS.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 09:13 pm
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Most "guesses" are not blind; there is usually some reason (valid or not) for the guess. When a choice is based on the flip of a coin, that's when guesswork is truly blind.


And a guess that concludes there are no gods...is nothing but a blind guess.

C'mon, JL...you should be able to see it.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 09:14 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

So you agree that belief in gods can be based on experience?


I agree that a guess that there are no gods...is nothing but a blind guess.

We do agree on that, correct?
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Oct, 2014 11:28 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

Here is what I am saying:

There are people who believe there are gods (is a GOD).

I am not among those people.

It is totally accurate to phrase that, "I do not believe in gods."

That is not the same as "I believe there are no gods."

The former merely states an absence of belief.

The latter actually states a belief.


Understood, that's how you define the statements, but there are people for whom the two phrases mean the same thing, however.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 05:20 am
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Here is what I am saying:

There are people who believe there are gods (is a GOD).

I am not among those people.

It is totally accurate to phrase that, "I do not believe in gods."

That is not the same as "I believe there are no gods."

The former merely states an absence of belief.

The latter actually states a belief.


Understood, that's how you define the statements, but there are people for whom the two phrases mean the same thing, however.


There may well be...but obviously they are wrong.

Ask any of the weak atheists here in A2K...and you will see that the distinction between the two is paramount to their weak atheistic position. And the fact that "there are people for whom the two phrases mean the same thing"...is simply a way of saying, "there are people who erroneously think they mean the same thing."

In any case, I was very careful to explain that I WAS MAKING that distinction...so there should have been no misunderstanding about what I was saying.
carloslebaron
 
  2  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 09:18 am
Quote:

There may well be...but obviously they are wrong.

Ask any of the weak atheists here in A2K...and you will see that the distinction between the two is paramount to their weak atheistic position. And the fact that "there are people for whom the two phrases mean the same thing"...is simply a way of saying, "there are people who erroneously think they mean the same thing."

In any case, I was very careful to explain that I WAS MAKING that distinction...so there should have been no misunderstanding about what I was saying.


1)- There are no gods.

Plain and simple.

No need of "proof"

No "blind guess" either.

2)- There are gods.

Also plain and simple.

But, you are required to prove it.

Bye bye blind guesses..
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 10:14 am
@carloslebaron,
Glad to see some logic on this subject. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 10:45 am
@carloslebaron,
carloslebaron wrote:

Quote:

There may well be...but obviously they are wrong.

Ask any of the weak atheists here in A2K...and you will see that the distinction between the two is paramount to their weak atheistic position. And the fact that "there are people for whom the two phrases mean the same thing"...is simply a way of saying, "there are people who erroneously think they mean the same thing."

In any case, I was very careful to explain that I WAS MAKING that distinction...so there should have been no misunderstanding about what I was saying.


1)- There are no gods.

Plain and simple.

No need of "proof"

No "blind guess" either.

2)- There are gods.

Also plain and simple.

But, you are required to prove it.

Bye bye blind guesses..


I imagine there are people who would find this logical...but there are people who don't really know how to use toilet paper also.

The statement "There are no gods" actually does need proof. It is an assertion that there are no gods in REALITY.

But even if proof is not asked for...or given...it is still a blind guess about the REALITY.

0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 01:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Stop playing games.
One Eyed Mind
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 01:40 pm
@Olivier5,
The only thing he can do, is play a game,

virtual affairs and other such connotations.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 02:34 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

Stop playing games.


Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery! Wink
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 02:47 pm
@carloslebaron,

Quote:
1)- There are no gods.
Plain and simple.
No need of "proof"
No "blind guess" either.


That's the foundation of logic; if something doesn't exist, no one is expected to prove it. It's self-explanatory. "The burden of proof is on the individual proposing existence, not the one questioning existence."

2)- There are gods.
Also plain and simple.
But, you are required to prove it.
Bye bye blind guesses..
Again, "The burden of proof is on the individual proposing existence, not the one questioning existence."

They are called "logical fallacy" or "reductio ad absurdum," or simply "a straw man argument."

You can't prove it "so they are guesses." Absurd.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:36 pm
@Frank Apisa,
So... What was I saying?
Fil Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:39 pm
Yes but indeed there is a distinction between saying I don't believe in Gods and saying there are no Gods, the first doesn't need proof the second since it is affirmative, does !
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 03:45 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
According to Frank, they're all guesses. However, I would suggest you ask Frank about them - for further 'clarification.'
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 05:48 pm
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

So... What was I saying?


I doubt you know!
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 25 Oct, 2014 06:02 pm
@Fil Albuquerque,
Fil Albuquerque wrote:

Yes but indeed there is a distinction between saying I don't believe in Gods and saying there are no Gods, the first doesn't need proof the second since it is affirmative, does !


Quite correct, Fil.

But I have not even been asking them for proof. I have merely been pointing out that any assertion that there are no gods involved in REALITY...has to be a blind guess.

There may be no gods...and there may be at least one.

I certainly do not know if there are none...and I cannot conceive of how ANYONE can know...or make a reasonable estimate. The best I can conceive is that an assertion that there are no gods...has to be a blind guess.

Olivier and Blue have suggested that "personal experience" can lead to making it other than a blind guess.

Neither has indicated how that works...although I have asked both to back it up several times.

The best "personal experience" I can think of in that direction would have to be "I can see no gods; no one has been able to prove there are gods; and there is no need for gods to explain existence."

But that DOES NOT make an assertion that there are no gods...something other than a blind guess.

It is possible that gods cannot be seen; that proving gods exist can never be done; and although I agree there is no need for gods, there also is nothing to indicate that gods are an impossibility.

Once again I suggest: The assertion "I believe there are no gods" is simply a disguised way of saying, "I am blindly guessing there are no gods."

0 Replies
 
 

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