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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 08:28 pm
Yes, I'm surprised to read that Dean is a johnny-one-note. Certainly his health insurance initiatives have been what he was first known for (except for a ripple in the press about civil marriages). He's certainly my fella, for now, anyway. His principled view of the invasion of Iraq has been more than refreshing. Lieberman is a major, deadly jerk. Kerry does nothing for me -- a kind of desperation Dem! Any mention of Kucinich lately? Mamaj?
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:14 pm
Nah. But then not much has been written about any of them yet.
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larry richette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:27 pm
Dean's "principled view" of Iraq policy falls apart when you ask him what his alternative policy would have been, because he doesn't have one. All he knows is he is antiwar. This is not enough to get him my vote. On health insurance, I haven't seen him forthrightly endorse a single payer plan a la the Canadian model. Until he does, he is tinkering at the margins the way the Clintons did, and we all know how well THEY succeeded. I prefer Kerry because at least, having served in the Senate awhile and having racked up a very liberal voting record, he is on record as favoring the kind of social change I like. Also Kerry showed great courage in investigating the Iran-Contra scandal even when the trail led straight to the CIA and George Bush. Howard Dean's idea of political courage is civil marriage for gays, an issue that I find totally irrelevant to my life and even to the lives of most gay people I know.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 10 Apr, 2003 10:30 pm
Larry, Can you share more on Kerry? What are his programs for this country if elected president? I think past accomplishments are important, but we need to know more about what he stands for for our future. c.i.
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Mapleleaf
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 05:53 am
Ditto, I am interested in reading more in-depth reports on Kerry.
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 02:15 pm
The link below is to the RNC, which gives an awful lot of information on Dean's goals. Far from being a one-note, there are many arrows in Dean's quiver. (Ouch!!!)

Anyway, these are the main points that scare the republicans, and they spell them out clearly. Note particularly Dean's opposition to the republican stand on health care (he wants a more universal coverage), on acceptance of all people - if the republicans think these are points (a good number of them) to be cocerned about, they're worth reading, no?


http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/research011003.htm
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Fri 11 Apr, 2003 02:42 pm
And this is on John Kerry from the republicans. The RNC is turning out to be a good source for information about democratic stands. This, of course, is not a source paid for or endorsed by any of the democrats, so would you call this fair and balanced?

http://www.rnc.org/Newsroom/RNCResearch/Research012303.htm
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 07:32 am
Know the enemy

Quote:
No previous presidential aide has had the power and influence that Karl Rove has in the White House of George W. Bush. He has been Bush's closest adviser since he first ran for governor of Texas. The authors of Bush's Brain write that during Bush's six years as governor of Texas "nothing important happened without his [Rove's] imprimatur." Yet Rove's work takes place behind the scenes; he rarely gives television interviews. Most of his activities are carried out in secrecy, and other White House officials are very reluctant to talk about what he does. The Bush White House is more clamped down than any other in recent history: Bush hates leaks, which he believes damaged his father's reelection chances, and Rove is his enforcer.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16215
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Flatted 5th
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 11:58 am
Of course its early yet, but this Dean is looking good. He is starting to get some buzz here in Oregon. There was a local Pizza parlor that showed video tapes of recent speeches by Dean. The 100 or so people gave rapt attention and responded in loud cheers for the Vermont gov.

He speaks his mind and doesn't seem to be bogged up in special interests that is all too common in the carreer Washington politicos. More importantly, I think Dean could be a unifier in the party injecting much needed energy to a stagnant Demos.

On the other hand Kerry has some great hair. :wink:
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 12:07 pm
That's a lovely story about the pizza place, Flatted, and it has greater credibility coming from someone who knows the correct spelling OR. (One has to take into account that people from your state have a higher intelligence level than found anywhere else in the US, except maybe Maine and Vermont...)

I'd like to see Dean go head to head (hair or not) with the "New Democrats".... and win.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 12:59 pm
Flatted 5th wrote:
He speaks his mind and doesn't seem to be bogged up in special interests that is all too common in the carreer Washington politicos.


If he didn't cater to special interests he wouldn't be in office now. The Special Interests he caters to are just different from the rest of the pack. Maybe that is a good thing, maybe not... The political process as it currently exists makes it very tough to get anywhere without them.
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Flatted 5th
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 09:31 pm
Thanks Tartarin, I hair ya!

fishin', I agree that special interests are an all encompassing goo-goo muck of the current political process. I don't know if Dean has the Vermont maple syrup industry in his pocket or not, but he sure has a refreshing way of communicating his message.

The belt-way politician is so entrenched in special interests that to the common voter there is no difference in the two major parties. Do I vote for frick or frack? Untill of course frick.....or is it frack.... gets elected and before you know it we're living in a police state.

Al Gore didn't speak his mind and "get real" untill he announced he was not running for '04, and that is just sad.
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maxsdadeo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 10:47 pm
http://gopportal.com/humor/cartoons/cartoonery/images/napollary.gif
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mamajuana
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2003 10:57 pm
Oh, I don't know. I sort of think special interests is one of those vastly over-used and mis-used short phrases.

Of course there are "special interests." Isn't health care one? And job creation? And education? They're all special. And a lot of people have solutions, or think they do. It's when some specifics start coming out that don't pander to one small group, such as the NRA, that the candidate becomes interesting. That's one thing that's put me off Edwards. He is, so far, chock full of cliches and generalizations, and I'm tired of it. I think that's why Dean is beginning to emerge. He does have some specifics to put forth, and he does speak out.

flatted 5th - they all have hair, although Kerry's is more. Come to think of it - would a bald man stand a chance?

Max - just you wait. You'll be singing a different tune in a few years.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2003 07:47 am
Have you ever noticed the correlation between fundamentalist Christians and moussed hair?
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2003 09:43 am
Yeah, and capped pearly overbites...

Quote:
According to the U.S. Constitution, there's a presidential election next year. Assuming it takes place as scheduled, however, Republicans are demanding special ground rules: there will be no criticizing the august personage of "America's commander-in-chief." Any rival who points out that George W. Bush is arguably the worst president since the Civil War will be deemed unpatriotic.

Accusing Democrats of lacking patriotism is GOP boilerplate. Even before Kerry's "regime change" joke, Weekly Standard editor and neo-conservative guru William Kristol was sadly telling Fox News Sunday that "a certain chunk of the Democratic Party, a higher chunk of the liberal commentators, take a certain relish in the fact when something goes badly in the war. They...hate the Bush administration more than they love America. And that is a very bad situation."

David Frum, the former Bush speechwriter who takes credit for coining the "Axis of Evil" phrase, used virtually identical terms to describe another group of Bush critics. "[T]hey are thinking about defeat, and wishing for it and they will take pleasure in it if it should happen," he wrote. "They began by hating the neoconservatives. They came to hate their party and this president. They have finished by hating their country."

Frum, however, wasn't talking about Democrats, but conservative pundits Robert Novak and Pat Buchanan, who have criticized the war in Iraq as contrary to the national interest. Novak broke what he said was a 40-year refusal to respond to personal attacks by describing his own Korean war service and lifelong patriotism.

During the 2002 election, Republicans ran TV ads in South Dakota linking Sen. Tom Daschle, an Air Force veteran, with Saddam Hussein. They impugned the patriotism of Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, who lost two legs and an arm fighting in Vietnam, because he differed with Junior over details of a Homeland Security bill Bush himself had opposed until his administration's cover-up of pre-9/11 intelligence failures became a big issue. Astonishingly, it worked, largely because Cleland refused to dignify the smear with a personal response.

Sen. Kerry is a different breed of cat. Instead of cowering, he hit back. "I'm not going to let the likes of Tom DeLay question my patriotism, which I fought for and bled for in order to have the right to speak out," he said. It was an obvious reference to the fact that DeLay, like many in the GOP Chickenhawk Corps, avoided Vietnam. Indeed, DeLay once memorably complained that undeserving minorities had unfairly grabbed up all the infantry slots.

Kerry later amplified the theme. "The Republicans have tried to make a practice of attacking anybody who speaks out strongly by questioning their patriotism," he said. "I refuse to have my patriotism or right to speak out questioned. I fought for and earned the right to express my views in this country... If they want to pick a fight, they've picked a fight with the wrong guy."

"I watched what they did to Max Cleland last year," Kerry added. "Shame on them for doing it then and shame on them for trying to do it now."

Amen to that.

Bush and company have gotten away with the phony tough-guy act for far too long. Frightened and confused since 9/11, Americans don't necessarily want to go to war with every tinpot dictator in the Islamic world.

But neither do they trust a leader who won't stand up for himself to stand up for them.


Gene Lyons, Political Correctness, GOP style
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2003 10:01 am
Sorta reminds one of "Nattering Nabobs of Negatavism", don't it? Or maybe "Effete, intelectual snobs" ... there are some great quotes from "The Old Days".

Something I think salient is that while The Left marshalls itself to mount an all-out assault on The Right, one of the complaints frequently heard from The Left is that they are hindered by a "Conservative Media Bias", in particular singling out Talk Radio and Cable News Outlests. The Left finds its loudest voice in The Press, specifically newspapers. The commercial success of the conservative electronic forae, which have come to dominate the airwaves, coincides closely with the decline of newspaper readership in general. America increasingly watches and listens to its news and opinion, as opposed to reading it. I offer for consideration the notion this indicates The Left is playing to a shrinking audience. America votes most clearly with its wallet. It seems the only way to get Combs to pay is to team him as straightman to Hannity. This has serious implications for The Left, IMHO, whoever they pick for Candidate, whatever, if ever, they establish as a Platform.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2003 10:08 am
Tartarin

I have noticed the moussed hair thing. I think - this is just a supposition of course, but I suggest it bears some scrutiny - that they experience some variety of emotional terror whenever anything moves. It's really how one spots a conservative. Yesterday was better than today...well, actually, to be even more precise, even all the yesterdays are bad news and have been heading straight to perdition since Eve (the slut) got randy for apple sauce. The sudden arrival of...gasp...pubic hair has caused more fundamentalists more serious trauma than platoons of therapists could ever deal with. There's the erection thing - and off goes Augustine into christian madness. I confess that the above evidences for my thesis are soft-science observations, ammenable to mis-interpretation and not susceptible to more rigorous Popperian proofs. For such, one needs only to survey a broad spectrum of proctologists, and ask them with what demographic they have real trouble.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2003 10:11 am
From David Swanson:

Quote:
WASHINGTON, D.C., April 9, 2003 - Tonight I attended the first gathering of the nine candidates for the 2004 Democratic nomination for President. The event was hosted by the Children's Defense Fund, and the questions and statements focused to a large extent on policies affecting children.

Overall the event was encouraging. Many good policies were proposed, many witty remarks made. It went beyond opposing the worst of the current administration to proposing aggressive new ideas. The candidates did not attack each other, and they did attack George W. Bush. The middle-of-the-roaders like Kerry and Gephardt said some better things than they might have had Sharpton, Kucinich, Dean, and Mosley-Braun not been there. Lieberman seemed to have found himself in the wrong party - and that's the good news: the crowd and most of the candidates sounded like a real live opposition party, not Republican Lite. Graham and Edwards are the candidates I haven't mentioned yet, neither of whom impressed me much.

The bad news is that I can't take the comments I liked from these nine people and combine them into my ideal candidate. We have to pick one of these individuals, each of whom has shortcomings. Eight of them are nowhere near the walking disaster our current President is. Two of them have the potential to be great.

Let's look at them in order, from best to worst, in terms of their apparent ability to serve well as president, setting aside for the moment questions of whether they have enough money or whether enough Americans will vote for someone of their race or gender.


Here's the link, for those whose minds haven't frozen closed.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2003 10:30 am
I love you, Blatham, and I don't care who knows it!!

"...some variety of emotional terror whenever anything moves..."
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