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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2004 10:08 pm
The AP is now announcing that Clark has withdrawn from the race after his poor showings today.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 10 Feb, 2004 10:58 pm
Yup, Clark has announced he's out of it.

USA Today: Clark to abandon race
Quote:
Wesley Clark, the novice politician with four-star military credentials, abandoned his presidential bid Tuesday after two third-place finishes in the South ...



TN Final:
Kerry 41%
Edwards 27%
Clark 23%
Dean 4%
Sharpton 2%
Liberman, Mosely-Braun, Kucinich pretty much tied at around 1% ea, Gephardt pulled about ½%

VA Final:
Kerry 52%
Edwards 27%
Clark 9%
Dean 7%
Sharpton 3%
Kucinich and Lieberman essentially tied here as well, at about 1% ea.

I just don't see anything stopping Kerry, boosting Dean, or keeping Edwards out of contention for Kerry's Veep.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 10:53 am
timberlandko wrote:
across a broad spectrum of concurrent polls, there are differing values within a narrow range-set, indicating very little of significance beyond Bush the Younger scoring preponderantly at or above the 50th percentile, with all others scoring below


Ehmm ... not to let the facts get in the way but actually, in the six polls of the last two weeks that pitted Kerry against Bush, Kerry had a lead in three, and Bush had a lead in three.

In only three of the six cases was either's lead larger than the MoE - in two cases, when Kerry was ahead, and in one case, when Bush was ahead.

The average of the last two weeks' polls doesn't show Bush "at or above the 50th percentile", but in fact at 46,6%. Kerry - at 47,8%.

I dont wanna seem like I'm twisting the numbers my way. So - take just the last week. There were four polls - one showing Kerry in a lead over the MoE (Newsweek); one showing Bush in a lead over the MoE (Fox); and two showing Bush in a lead that was within the MoE.

On average, again, Bush was well below the 50th percentile, at 47,8% - Kerry, at 47,3%.

Basically, Bush vs Kerry is a tie, right now.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 10:56 am
realjohnboy wrote:
Thanks. I enjoy talking with y'all about this. Most of my friends run away when they see me coming; knowing that I might talk about the mechanics of our political system in the US. -realjohnboy-


LOL! I'm sure we all know your problem. The appreciation is mutual ;-)
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 11:19 am
A sad story, Part I ...

Last night, when he was still in the race, I was reading this TNR Campaign Journal entry on Wes Clark: The End is Near

It reads like a gentle, low-key obituary to his campaign.

A sad story, Part II

This Campaign Journal special, in turn, reads like the quirky, Vermonty obituary to Howard Dean's campaign - I'll post it in full, cause you have to register for it:

Quote:
CAMPAIGN JOURNAL
Howard's End

by Ryan Lizza

Post date 02.05.04 | Issue date 02.16.04

Burlington, Vermont

his is the future," says Nicco Mele, a bearded man with rimless glasses who is famous among Howard Dean fans as the campaign's webmaster. "We're going to have ten thousand listeners by the end of the week." It's the night before Dean will lose all seven February 3 states, and I'm sitting on an overturned recycling bin in a cramped office at Dean headquarters in Burlington. Until recently, this tiny, airless room was used by a field director to organize Dean voters. Still scrawled across a whiteboard on one wall is a message from Iowa or New Hampshire that recalls the bygone era when Joe Trippi was campaign manager and winning seemed not just possible but inevitable: "Trippi wants Kerry 4's"--a reference to undecided voters targeted by John Kerry.

Now, instead of being used to organize voters, the office has been turned into a makeshift radio studio. Last week, while drinking beers at a T.G.I. Friday's down the road, Mele and Zephyr Teachout, Dean's Internet organizer, decided the thing to do in the midst of the Dean implosion was to start a Web-based radio show. Mele and Teachout share a microphone at one brown folding table, while two engineers sit hunched over laptops at another. "Here we go, baby!" says Mele. An engineer begins counting down to the first official broadcast, "Fifteen seconds. Mics are going live!"

In the last week, the Dean campaign has undergone a radical transformation. First, Dean lost New Hampshire. Immediately afterward, he lost his campaign manager. He was forced to defer paychecks for five days and lay off some of the staffers who organized young voters--once a central mission of the campaign. I spent a couple of days at Dean headquarters to get a feel for how the campaign was dealing with this stunning turn of fortune.

Some aides complain privately about the way Trippi's removal was handled: Senior staffers didn't have any forewarning and weren't prepared to deal with the barrage of stories about new campaign "CEO" Roy Neel's lobbying career. There is still some bitterness toward Kate O'Connor, the longtime Dean aide whom Trippi partisans blame for his ouster. Other staffers blame the media for Dean's collapse. Aides still complain bitterly about the excessive replaying of the Iowa scream speech. They carp about the lack of scrutiny that Kerry is receiving from the press. One staffer even showed me a computer database of news coverage that can use algorithms to determine the impartiality of particular reporters. "I can do a bias check," he tells me, showing off the software.

But, despite the complaints, the mood in Burlington is more nostalgic than bitter. Sitting among scattered boxes of dean for america t-shirts, listening to Mele and Teachout field phone calls from Deaniacs, I can't help but think that the Web radio show, which would have seemed like another groundbreaking campaign tactic just a few weeks ago, now seems hopelessly out-of-touch, a sign that the campaign and its followers are becoming further and further isolated from what's actually happening in the election. Mele tells the audience excitedly, "Wednesday is our one-year anniversary of Meetup"--the website Dean organizers used to create a community of supporters across the country--"Tell us what it was like and how far we've come!" A freshman from the University of California at Berkeley calls in to say that he's "spreading the word" through a local Dean chapter on campus. "How is the club doing?" one of the hosts asks. "We're growing in numbers. We've got about twenty-five members so far," he replies proudly. A few minutes later, a man named Karl calls in. Karl remembers last year's Meetup with fondness. "It seems like only yesterday," he says, reminiscing. "Nobody knew what the heck they were doing."

All these high-tech innovations--from the Meetups to the Web radio show--were supposed to enable the campaign to bypass the mainstream media. Instead, it seems caught in an echo chamber populated by Dean partisans. Indeed, I meet Karl in person later the same evening: He works in Burlington for the Dean campaign.

Even if tending to the grassroots hasn't netted Dean much electoral support, though, it does pay the bills. Even now, as Dean loses state after state, his campaign is still raising as much as a quarter of a million dollars per day online. The Internet failed miserably as an organizing tool in Iowa, yet Dean still managed to raise more money after his distant third-place finish there than John Edwards did following his strong second.

The next day, I hang out at Dean headquarters as Tuesday night's election returns roll in. New boss Neel is appearing on "Hardball," and aides gather around a television to watch. Despite Trippi's cult following, Neel seems to have been welcomed with open arms by both Dean's staff and the Deaniacs who post on the campaign's blog. Both have been oddly pragmatic about the change. One senior Dean aide told me that Trippi's managerial skills were so lacking that they needed someone like Neel to implement his vision. The blog embraced Neel on his first day on the job, with some posters welcoming him aboard and requesting he give them their first set of "orders."

We watch as "Hardball" host Chris Matthews begins pummeling Neel with questions. "Is this an inside job you're pulling?" he asks. "Because you're a Washington insider, and you're running against Washington insiders. It seems like suicide, not a campaign." Neel stammers that he is "anything but a Washington insider," but Matthews interrupts him. "Where do you live?" he badgers. "Where do you work?" Neel shoots back, "I'm living in a motel in Burlington, Vermont." At Dean HQ, the staff cheers.

For the most part, though, the atmosphere on election night is oddly detached, as if everyone were watching a race in which they weren't actually participating. On a cell phone, an aide talks to a colleague about going to work for the Edwards campaign. Reminding me that the campaign predicted a poor showing, Teachout jokes, "We're beating expectations." Dean didn't waste much time in the February 3 states, and the campaign couldn't afford to run TV ads in any of them. Under the radar, Dean was reduced to working talk radio and other free media opportunities to get publicity. One internal campaign memo outlined opportunities for Dean to get his message on the radio. In a section about North Dakota, the memo described how Dean should act on air. The governor, who often bashes right-wing radio hosts and loves a passionate debate, was advised to tone down his act. "The key to successfully using talk radio is to come across as likeable even in the face of an adversarial host," it said. "It does not pay for Governor Dean to engage in heated arguments with any of them. He should let them have their say." Echoing Dean's post-Iowa political repositioning, the memo advised, "When on talk radio Howard Dean should speak through his 'doctor' persona--not his political one." The reason for neutering the governor in this way is that, given his utter lack of paid media, he needs to be invited back on the show, "which--I can't point out enough--is the goal," the memo explains.

Neither the political nor doctor persona works on Tuesday. Back in his office, after the "Hardball" appearance, Neel and I watch the election returns. He is oddly calm about the foundering enterprise he now runs. When Karen Hicks, a senior Dean aide who now runs much of the campaign's day-to-day operation, walks in with a copy of Dean's speech, Neel asks her, "Did you want me to see it?" He doesn't bother reading it before she sends it off to Dean.

Despite the disastrous night, he says Dean is sticking to the plan. The campaign will start to do better this weekend in Michigan, Washington, and Maine, and then wait for the alleged showdown with Kerry in Wisconsin on February 17. But there are no promises of victory. Neel says they only have to "do well" in Washington and Maine, and he admits that Michigan is no longer very competitive. "Kerry has a huge lead there," he concedes.

Even in Wisconsin, Neel argues, Dean doesn't have to win but only "finish a close second." The strategy seems even more far-fetched now that both John Edwards and Wesley Clark have been strengthened by their wins in South Carolina and Oklahoma, but it's all Dean has. "We're going to be written out of the picture tomorrow, but that's it," Neel says. "We'll be coming back, and we've got the tools and resources to come back."

Edwards appears on the television to give his South Carolina victory speech. Neel watches Edwards, his head slumped on his right hand. "He looks good," Neel drawls. "My ex-wife loves this guy here. ... He's very appealing. He's a really nice guy. He came that close to being on the ticket in 2000."

We walk out of his office and hover over the clot of desks where the Internet team is busy posting to the blog and checking the temperature of the Deaniacs who are commenting online about the night's bloodbath. Nobody seems dispirited. Neel talks to Teachout about his appearance on her radio show that night and jokes about how his posts are being received by the Deaniacs. He raises his hands in the air and yells, "I want to blog!"

Ryan Lizza is an associate editor at TNR.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 12:48 pm
nimh wrote:
Basically, Bush vs Kerry is a tie, right now

Right now, that's about right, as I see it, too, given examination of just the near-term results ... pretty much "Too Close To Call". I don't see this, as yet, anyway, a "serious development" from my point of view, which of course is that the primary cause is to exclude any of the current crop of Democrat candidate wannabees from The Whitehouse. Naturally, we shall see what developments develop, as always. For the moment, I suspect the apparent increase of public sentiment favorable to The Opposition as opposed to The Current Administration is a function of the current media focus on The Democrats and their champions. As I mentioned, folks in general are influenced by what's in their faces at the moment. What's in their faces is, and for over a year has been, is The Opposition. The Current Administration essentially has been biding its time while the field sorts itself out, a reasonable strategy, IMO. I fully anticipate the Republican counteroffensive, when it begins in earnest, will carry the issue handily. There certainly are deep divisions, and strong partisanship, when the two major parties are considered, and nothing is likely to sway the positions and sentiments of either. Given that the two parties themselves each comprise approximately a third of The Electorate, it is the the other third, the Undecideds, the Independents, who are the key to victory. What I see the Democrats accomplishing is nothing less than alienating this remaining third, which group has yet to be exposed to a vigorous presentation of The Republican Message. Of the remaining viable nominee wannabees, Edwards seems to me capable of mounting the strongest challenge, if only by virtue of his lack of history to mine for negatives. Dean is toast, and Kerry carries a lot of delicious (from the Republican point of view) baggage. I doubt Dean will achieve a respectable third place finish in Wisconsin. RealClearPolitics shows Kerry with a commanding lead, while Edwards, Dean, and, now inconsequentially Clark, essentially tied for second, splitting roughly a third of the respondents to Kerry's tally of over half those sampled. Clark's withdrawal does cloud things a bit, and it remains to be seen how his former supporters will line up. Should he endorse Kerry, a not unlikely prospect given their military ties, no benefit whatsoever will fall to either Dean or Edwards. As of now, I see an eventual Kerry-Edwards ticket shaping up, and I just don't see that ticket capable of mounting a substantive challenge to The Current Administration. The Dean Debacle foreshadows the performance I expect of The Democratic Party come November. Like the Deaniacs, The Democrats will convince few but themselves of their relevance and substance, IMO, and will be found sadly wanting in the final tally, even without a Third Party distraction, something yet a fair possibility, though by no means a certainty. Should Nader run, or should Dean megomaniacally bolt the party and run as an Independent, it well could be generations before The Democrats recover. Should they avoid a three-way November contest, they have the possibility of gaining some influence in the '06 midterms, and an opportunity to build a cohesive challenge for the '08 General Election ... very possibly headed by a then-seasoned-and-experienced, widely known Edwards.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 01:14 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Given that the two parties themselves each comprise approximately a third of The Electorate, it is the the other third, the Undecideds, the Independents, who are the key to victory. What I see the Democrats accomplishing is nothing less than alienating this remaining third,


Did I post this one yet ? :wink:

http://www.pollingreport.com/images/GALparties.GIF
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 01:46 pm
Looks like that the Republican Party has only one brain - all lead by GWBush.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 01:50 pm
c.i. - that wouldn't be brain...........
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 01:52 pm
Trying hard to give them the "benefit of the doubt."
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 03:04 pm
Quote:


A brain like, uhhh, well, a mushmelon..........
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fbaezer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 06:57 pm
a couple of things we must remember about polls.

1) They are a (somewhat blurry) photo of a moment, a still taken in the middle of a race. There are many months 'til november.

2) A big problem with electoral polls predictability is that they must measure how possible it is for every member of the sample to actually vote. The filtering is not an easy thing.

3) Same goes with party image... a good party image does not automatically mean a better voting percentage. People who like that party may be less willing or less able to vote (income and education level must be taken into account: people with higher income and education are more prone to vote).

4) Finally, in the US not popular vote but electoral votes determine the winner of the presidential race -and we know what happened in the 2000 election-. IMO, if they were really trying to figure out who's ahead, pollsters should invest their efforts in the states where the race is close (forget Idaho, Alaska, Hawaii or Massachussets).


All this said, after reading Kerry's agenda and program I must say I like them, and would like him both to be the democratic candidate and to defeat GWB.
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 07:15 pm
Quote:
"It's nine months before the election and Bush's poll numbers have fallen to the exact level that his father's poll numbers were nine months before he lost to Bill Clinton. Today John Kerry said he's not superstitious, but just to be on the safe side, he's going to start f**king everything that moves."

--Bill Maher
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 07:47 pm
x # of polls find that Y # of congressmen/women and candidates running for office find more interest in Janets' alleged nipple offending the populace than (1) war (2) environment (3) jobs (4) education (5) security of the USA. Perhaps these are the same "persons" that found it necessary to recess both houses of Congress in order to loudly say "One Nation Under God" to protest a legal decision of a Federal Court of Appeals.
The business of government is hardly the "business" of governing.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 07:49 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Quote:
"It's nine months before the election and Bush's poll numbers have fallen to the exact level that his father's poll numbers were nine months before he lost to Bill Clinton. Today John Kerry said he's not superstitious, but just to be on the safe side, he's going to start f**king everything that moves."

--Bill Maher


That was one of his funniest shows!
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 11 Feb, 2004 07:49 pm
dys, Don't forget the spiralling federal budget deficit.
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 11:15 am
dyslexia wrote:
x # of polls find that Y # of congressmen/women and candidates running for office find more interest in Janets' alleged nipple offending the populace than (1) war (2) environment (3) jobs (4) education (5) security of the USA. Perhaps these are the same "persons" that found it necessary to recess both houses of Congress in order to loudly say "One Nation Under God" to protest a legal decision of a Federal Court of Appeals.
The business of government is hardly the "business" of governing.



Sad, but true Exclamation
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 11:17 am
Brand X - It is still on, now it is HBO....

Recent line from Maher was that he is the only person who was fired over WofMD's.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 11:56 am
Yeah, I try to catch it every week.
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Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Thu 12 Feb, 2004 12:04 pm
CAMPAIGN DRAMA ROCKS DEMOCRATS: KERRY FIGHTS OFF MEDIA PROBE OF RECENT ALLEGED INFIDELITY, RIVALS PREDICT RUIN

**World Exclusive**
**Must Credit the DRUDGE REPORT**

A frantic behind-the-scenes drama is unfolding around Sen. John Kerry and his quest to lockup the Democratic nomination for president, the DRUDGE REPORT can reveal.

Intrigue surrounds a woman who recently fled the country, reportedly at the prodding of Kerry, the DRUDGE REPORT has learned.

A serious investigation of the woman and the nature of her relationship with Sen. John Kerry has been underway at TIME magazine, ABC NEWS, the WASHINGTON POST, THE HILL and the ASSOCIATED PRESS, where the woman in question once worked.

MORE

A close friend of the woman first approached a reporter late last year claiming fantastic stories -- stories that now threaten to turn the race for the presidency on its head!

In an off-the-record conversation with a dozen reporters earlier this week, General Wesley Clark plainly stated: "Kerry will implode over an intern issue." [Three reporters in attendance confirm Clark made the startling comments.]

The Kerry commotion is why Howard Dean has turned increasingly aggressive against Kerry in recent days, and is the key reason why Dean reversed his decision not to drop out of the race after Wisconsin, top campaign sources tell the DRUDGE REPORT.
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