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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 09:34 am
timberlandko wrote:
jjorge*197982* wrote:
timber,

Care to explain what you meant by this?


Sure; it seems to me that The Democrats are opting out of meaningful participation in the political process ... marginalizing themselves.



I can't say that the Dem candidate will beat Bush. Maybe he will, maybe not, but it WILL be competitive.

Stay tuned.
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:09 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Lola, Bush's approval rating is going up because 1) all the financial pundits are saying our economy is growing (as proved by the stock market's new highs), 2) Saddam was caught, 3) the new drug benefit (that the insurance and drug companies will benefit while bankrupting medicare for the baby-boomers), 4) we haven't had a terrorist attack in the US since nine-eleven, and 5) all the democrats are fighting amongst themselves.


c.i.

Re #1 on your list:

From: 'Our So-Called Boom'
By Paul Krugman NYT 12-30-03


"...So if jobs are scarce and wages are flat, who's benefiting from the economy's expansion? The direct gains are going largely to corporate profits, which rose at an annual rate of more than 40 percent in the third quarter. Indirectly, that means that gains are going to stockholders, who are the ultimate owners of corporate profits. (That is, if the gains don't go to self-dealing executives, but let's save that topic for another day.)

Well, so what? Aren't we well on our way toward becoming what the administration and its reliable defenders call an "ownership society," in which everyone shares in stock market gains? Um, no. It's true that slightly more than half of American families participate in the stock market, either directly or through investment accounts. But most families own at most a few thousand dollars' worth of stocks.

A good indicator of the share of increased profits that goes to different income groups is the Congressional Budget Office's estimate of the share of the corporate profits tax that falls, indirectly, on those groups. According to the most recent estimate, only 8 percent of corporate taxes were paid by the poorest 60 percent of families, while 67 percent were paid by the richest 5 percent, and 49 percent by the richest 1 percent. ("Class warfare!" the right shouts.) So a recovery that boosts profits but not wages delivers the bulk of its benefits to a small, affluent minority.

The bottom line, then, is that for most Americans, current economic growth is a form of reality TV, something interesting that is, however, happening to other people. This may change if serious job creation ever kicks in, but it hasn't so far.

The big question is whether a recovery that does so little for most Americans can really be sustained. Can an economy thrive on sales of luxury goods alone? We may soon find out."
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/30/opinion/30KRUG.html
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:17 am
I'm going to attend a Dean party tonight...you, jorge?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:18 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
Lola, Bush's approval rating is going up because 1) all the financial pundits are saying our economy is growing (as proved by the stock market's new highs), 2) Saddam was caught, 3) the new drug benefit (that the insurance and drug companies will benefit while bankrupting medicare for the baby-boomers), 4) we haven't had a terrorist attack in the US since nine-eleven, and 5) all the democrats are fighting amongst themselves.


Well, thats as concise and clear a summary as I've seen - thumbs up!

Meanwhile, we're now quoting the same poll results over for the second or third time ...
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:20 am
nimh wrote:
Meanwhile, we're now quoting the same poll results over for the second or third time ...


Until tomorrow, when they'll be a fresh roll of t.p., nimmer :wink:
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:28 am
If I remember correctly, the Republicans were continuously (for 9 years) elated over all the Clinton bashing. Let's have another nine years of that, if you please................ Cool

Good for USA, America and the World........
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:44 am
Whats "t.p.", PDiddie?
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 10:45 am
toliet paper Cool
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Dec, 2003 11:14 am
PDiddie wrote:
I'm going to attend a Dean party tonight...you, jorge?


PD

There are several Dean parties in these parts tonight. I want to go to one in Wakefield RI but I can't get out of work.

I've been trying for two weeks to find someone to cover for me in the ER tonight but all the folks I usually swap with are
otherwise occupied. #!6%!!

There's ONE more possibility, maybe I can swap with my friend Ray and take his Saturday evening

BUT...


...He must be on his #!6%!#!6%!! computer, because I keep getting busy signals! Grrrrrr! #!6%!#!6%!!


PS have a great time tonight!
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 10:36 pm
Pat Robertson: God told him it's Bush in a 'blowout'

By Sonja Barisic
Associated Press Writer

January 2 2004

NORFOLK, Va. -- Pat Robertson said Friday that God told him President Bush will be re-elected in a landslide.

"I think George Bush is going to win in a walk," the religious broadcaster said on his "700 Club" program on the Virginia Beach-based Christian Broadcasting Network, which he founded.

"I really believe I'm hearing from the Lord it's going to be like a blowout election in 2004. It's shaping up that way," Robertson said.

"The Lord has just blessed him," Robertson said of Bush. "I mean, he could make terrible mistakes and comes out of it. It doesn't make any difference what he does, good or bad, God picks him up because he's a man of prayer and God's blessing him."

Earlier on the program, Robertson had explained that he wanted to share "some of the things that I believe the Lord was showing me as I spent several days in prayer at the end of 2003."

Robertson also said that this year will be one of "extraordinary prosperity" and that God will bless China in 2004 "in a way it's never known before."

"God loves China and he loves the Chinese people," Robertson said. "I believe there's going to be an unbelievable spiritual revival taking place in China this year."

The Rev. Barry W. Lynn, a frequent Robertson critic and executive director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, said he had a prediction of his own.

"I predict that Pat Robertson in 2004 will continue to use his multimillion broadcasting empire to promote George Bush and other Republican candidates," Lynn said in a statement. "Maybe Pat got a message from (Bush political adviser) Karl Rove and thought it was from God."

A Robertson spokeswoman did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment.
http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/virginia/dp-sou--robertson-bush0102jan02,0,4453351,print.story?coll=dp-headlines-virginia
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 2 Jan, 2004 11:14 pm
What's the matter? Doesn't god like any of the democrats? That's darn right discrimination.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 09:10 am
It bears repeating: Pat Robertson comes closest to matching the description of the biblical Antichrist.

And here's my bias showing: He needs to be beaten with 700 clubs.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 09:15 am
Boy this thread gets off-topic a lot.

Back on:

Quote:
"Leadership is about persuading the other fellow to do what you want him to do. We could do a lot better job of leadership if we work through alliances."

-- General Wesley Clark, Fortune Magazine, 7/29/03

Quote:
"I'm the commander - see, I don't explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

-- President "Bring 'em on", Bush At War, by Bob Woodward, 2002
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 10:43 am
Quote:
Quote:
"I'm the commander - see, I don't explain why I say things. That's the interesting thing about being president. Maybe somebody needs to explain to me why they say something, but I don't feel like I owe anybody an explanation."

-- President "Bring 'em on", Bush At War, by Bob Woodward, 2002


God, that is too scary. That might have come out of the mouth of a poorly educated automechanic, with low self-esteem, who's just found himself in a surprising position of power.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 10:57 am
Blatham,

I think there are some very real (amd important) aspects of command and leadership that you are ignoring here. Sometimes difficult to appreciate until one is actually in such a situation.

The statement is, of course, being examoned out of context. It would be interesting to know the question Woodward asked that inspired the comment.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 11:20 am
george,

Woodward probably asked something complicated like, "why do you say that?"

I'm sure you know a little something about command and leadership, but not all commanders are of the type you seem to be familiar with. As a matter of fact, I'm sure those you know are in a minority and do not represent most commanders. There are some, GW included, who haven't a clue about these aspects to which you refer.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 11:25 am
georgeob1 wrote:
The statement is, of course, being examoned out of context. It would be interesting to know the question Woodward asked that inspired the comment.


Perhaps you could 'examone' (sic) the context by purchasing the book, or by locating the text of the entire interview and posting it here, rather than simply questioning the veracity of data you are unfamiliar with.
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 11:31 am
I thought I'd beat blatham with a great Salon link:

Quote:
As the cheap currency of the season, resolutions and predictions are both best avoided. Cheapest of all are those predictions suggesting that the entire democratic process of the coming year will be pointless because its outcome is already preordained. The pundits who offer this wisdom can only do so with impaired memories. Every election cycle has begun with such confident fortune-telling by journalists and politicians -- and as often as not their forecasts have been worthless.

In 1992, for instance, we were assured again and again that the incumbent President Bush would be unbeatable. The Democratic aspirants were mocked as second-rate small-timers, bickering in the shadow of the great popular hope who had declined to run. (Mario Cuomo then, Hillary Clinton now?) The Democratic primaries, not unusually vicious nor any more unpleasant than the Republican contest four years earlier, were described as so unrelentingly brutal that the winner would be left mortally wounded. And the man who did win was presented to the public as a figure so flawed that his own fellow Democrats would shrink from supporting him. (And of course some of those Democrats obliged with nasty quotes about their victorious rival, just as several candidates seem all too eager to do this year.)

Does any of this sound familiar? It is the same old script, droning over the airwaves today as it did then. Perhaps everything will turn out this year just as our journalistic soothsayers insist is inevitable, with a Dean nomination and a Bush victory. But the unknowable and unforeseeable almost always intervene, as they did against Bush's father.

So as the new year begins, please consider this preserved gem from June 1992, a month before the Democratic convention -- back when Bill Clinton was 20 points behind the president he later defeated, and the great minds of the time said that his victory would be impossible.
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 11:40 am
Well, if you quoted it [Woodward] you might have it handy somewhere, PDiddie? Razz

Meanwhile, jjorge brings good news in his Dean thread: the latest Time/CNN poll!

Turns all the doom and gloom of the last few polls around - well, at least to where things are just a little better still than where we were before the Bush boost of the holidays.

Reminder: two weeks ago, Dean was behind Bush by 20 points (55-35) in a CBS poll. And 18 points (56-38) in the ABC/WaPo poll.

This week:
George Bush 51%
Howard Dean 46%


He's actually doing better than in September or November now.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sat 3 Jan, 2004 11:42 am
PDiddie,

I haven't read any of Woodward's books, and don't intend to until I finish the last of Conrad, Dickens, and Trollope, and exhaust the available material on science and history.

I merely pointed out that the statement was offered out of context. Whaterer rhetorical obligation there may be in this matter is not mine - it belongs to whoever offered the statement as a topic of discussion and analysis.
0 Replies
 
 

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