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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 08:05 pm
Wesley Clark:

Quote:
"We had him (Osama bin Laden) on the run in December 2001, but the administration didn’t have a plan for success, didn’t have sufficient U.S. forces on the ground to close the noose around him, and he escaped," Clark said. "The administration wants to say he’s not a threat, but today’s heightened terrorism alert ... says he still is, despite 170 some odd billion dollars and 450 lives committed in Iraq."
0 Replies
 
pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Dec, 2003 08:05 pm
Kerry is wealthy
Kerry would be one of the wealthiest Presidents ever but I seriously doubt if he will win the nomination.

Lieberman may as well join the Repub party. He is a liberal Repub.

Kucinich should become Indie and join up with Nadar.

Gebhart is centrist. No spark.

The rest? No chance.

Clark- Secr. of Defense.
Edwards- Atty. General
Brown-Secr. of Labor
Kucinich-Secr. of State
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 07:26 pm
A string of bad news from the polls for the Dems.

-- On 21 December, the ABC News/Money magazine CONSUMER COMFORT INDEX went up to -9 on a +100/-100 scale - up from -11 the week before, -17 in mid-November, and -20 in early October. It hasn't been up this high since July 2002;

-- Back on 14/15 December, the CBS News Poll had seen the job rating for Bush leap up: from a 52% - 40% approve/disapprove ration to 58% - 33%. A temporary Saddam-spiderhole elation boost? But a week later, just before Christmas, the numbers are even better for Bush: 60% - 33% ...

(Caveat: it should be noted that the CBS numbers for both weeks are significantly better for Bush than either the ABC, Newsweek or AP post-Saddam poll figures have been.)

-- The same CBS News poll of 21/22 December has Bush ahead of the generic "Democrat" by 49 - 40%. Just three weeks before, that had been 42 - 41%.

Worse: pitted against Howard Dean, specifically, Bush is ahead by a staggering 20% margin: 55 - 35%, with 9% undecided.

And this time around, the CBS poll does not seem significantly out of step with the other polls. In the last ABC/WaPo poll of 18-21/12, after all, Bush had been ahead of the generic "Democrat" by 10% (51 - 41%) and ahead of Dean by 18%, 56 - 38%.

- Among Independents in the CBS poll, Bush leads Howard Dean, specifically, by a disheartening 29% margin - Bush 57%, Dean 28%.

Well ... what can we say ... better enjoy the underdog status in the race next year, I guess ...

On one thing, confusion reigns: whats the state of the Dem field in the primaries?

The second most recent poll, the ABC/WaPo one, had Dean jump up from 20% to 31% in the Democratic primaries field, with Gephardt (up 3 to 9%) a distant second and Lieberman and Kerry immediately behind at 8%.

In the CBS poll, however, Dean is down 7 points to 16%, with Clark stationary at 10% in second place and Gephardt third with 9% (and Kerry polling lower than either Edwards of Carol Mosely Brown).
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 08:47 pm
Notable: Bush hasn't laid a mitt on Dean. The voters are turning away from Dean because they see he's rudderless. And, occasionally trots out the Conspiracy Theorists' quotables. Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 08:58 pm
Brand X wrote:
Kerry has mortgaged half of his home, $6.5 million, to stay in the race. If he made that kind of decision as president, he'd be making Bush like decisions.

Somebody help here.
Kerry's wife has loose change worth 6mil. What is Kerry trying to say--mortgaging his house? Was he afraid of what might be said if he took money from his moneybag...I mean wife?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 10:20 pm
Sofia wrote:
Somebody help here.
Kerry's wife has loose change worth 6mil. What is Kerry trying to say--mortgaging his house? Was he afraid of what might be said if he took money from his moneybag...I mean wife?


The law doesn't allow his wife to contribute more than the standard, nominal $ 1,000 (or something) contribution. Its the new rules applying. Therefore, Kerry can only use his own money - or any of their common property that he can prove is "his part" in it. Thus, he can mortgage "his half" of their house, for example - and thus, he is moved to do exactly that. Its either that or breaking the law, which doesnt tend to go down well in campaign times.

I dunno how his wife can legally help him much here with all her millions, at all ... I guess she could theoretically contribute a large sum to an independent campaign organisation , not formally tied to any individual campaign (like, say, MoveOn) - so that it, then can make a TV ad for her husband. But there's not a whole lot of independent organisations rooting for Kerry (as opposed to any of the other candidates), out there, at all ...
0 Replies
 
Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Dec, 2003 10:24 pm
Thanks, nimh.
That is so hard to believe.
Most marriages have a community pot. Funny how election standards separate a couple.
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 07:56 am
Sofia wrote:
Thanks, nimh.
That is so hard to believe.
Most marriages have a community pot. Funny how election standards separate a couple.


The "community pot" in their case is only what they've earned independently since they've been married. Most of his wife's earnings aren't independent - they are tied up in her personal corporation/foundation. One of the side-effects of a pre-nuputial agreement.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 07:58 am
Today's headline on the Dean compaign:

Quote:
Dean had own secret energy group
Candidate criticizes Cheney task force for secrecy
Sunday, December 28, 2003 Posted: 9:12 PM EST (0212 GMT)

WASHINGTON (AP) -- Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean has demanded release of secret deliberations of Vice President Dick Cheney's energy task force.

But as Vermont governor, Dean had an energy task force that met in secret and angered state lawmakers.

Dean's group held one public hearing and after-the-fact volunteered the names of industry executives and liberal advocates it consulted in private, but the Vermont governor refused to open the task force's closed-door deliberations.

In 1999, Dean offered the same argument the Bush administration uses today for keeping deliberations of a policy task force secret.

"The governor needs to receive advice from time to time in closed session. As every person in government knows, sometimes you get more open discussion when it's not public," Dean was quoted as saying.

Dean's own dispute over the secrecy of a Vermont task force that devised a policy for restructuring the state's near-bankrupt electric utilities has escaped national attention, even though he has attacked a similar arrangement used by President Bush.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Dean defended his recent criticism of Cheney's task force and his demand that the administration release its private energy deliberations even though he refused to do that in Vermont.


http://www.cnn.com/2003/ALLPOLITICS/12/28/elec04.prez.dean.energy.ap/index.html


The farther he gets into the lead in the primary race the more people are going to dig into what he's been doing.
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 09:00 am
Fishin

There ARE superficial similarities, but there are also very important differences between the Dean and Cheney task forces. Here's a little more from the article you cite:

"...Dean's campaign said it was "laughable" to compare the two. "Governor Dean confronted and averted an energy crisis that would have had disastrous consequences for the citizens of Vermont by bringing together a bipartisan and ideologically diverse working group that solved the problem," spokesman Jay Carson said Sunday.

"Dick Cheney put together a group of his corporate cronies and partisan political contributors, and they gave themselves billions and disguised it as a national energy policy."

In September, Dean argued that the task force Cheney assembled in 2001 and the Bush energy policy that were unduly influenced by Bush family friend and Enron energy chief Kenneth Lay.

"The administration should also level with the American people about just how much influence Ken Lay and his industry buddies had over the development of the president's energy policy by releasing notes on the deliberations of Vice President Cheney's energy task force," Dean said September 15.

In 1998, Dean's Vermont similar task force met in secret to write a plan for revamping state electricity markets that would slow rising consumer costs and relieve utilities of a money-losing deal with a Canadian company.

The task force's work resulted in Vermont having the first utility in the country to meet energy efficiency standards.

It also freed the state's utilities from their deal with a giant Canadian power company, Hydro Quebec, that had left them near bankruptcy but passed as much as 90 percent of those costs to consumers. Utility shareholders also suffered some losses..."
0 Replies
 
jjorge
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 09:59 am
Re: It's early
pistoff wrote:
...It seems that Dean will get the nomination. When will we know or sure?...

...The Dems are making a huge mistake by the infighting. The Neocons will fight furiously once a candidate is chosen. This is going to be a down and dirty election...


pistoff,

A few excerpts from Rick Holmes (Boston Herald Metrowest News 12-29-03):



"Ganging up on Dean"

"We knew this campaign was going to be ugly...
...The media will be nasty as well. That much was clear when Al Gore dared

raise his head two weeks ago to endorse Dean. Pundits of all stripes pulled

out lazy caricatures of Gore as wooden and prone to reinventing himself.

People who should know better repeated the lie that Gore had claimed he

invented the Internet...

...Gore's alleged snub of Joe Lieberman, exploited by Lieberman for all it was

worth, was picked up by a media horde practiced at inflating any misstep

into a character flaw, who added "back-stabber" to their Gore boilerplate...

...The Democrats' attacks on Dean are likely to escalate in the next few

weeks. He's the frontrunner and eight other candidates would like to chip

into his lead. But it's not just his opponents Dean has to worry about. His

campaign is a rebuke to the Washington Democrats -- the Tom Daschles and

Dick Gephardts who rolled over through most of Bush's first term. His pledge

to represent "the Democratic wing of the Democratic party" is a slam at the

DLC centrists who think success comes from sounding a lot like Republicans.

The success of Dean's Internet-based small donor fund-raising undermines

Democratic National Chairman Terry McAuliffe and others like him who rose

to power by tapping the fat wallets of selfish interests...

...Sure, there are differences on policy matters, but that's not what's going

on here. The Washington Democrats -- incumbents, fund-raisers and the

consultants who feed off them -- don't like Dean mostly because he doesn't

need them...

...So far, Dean has reacted to the attacks by holding his ground and taking

the high road. The Deanies complained so vociferously about the bin Laden

commercial that three unions which had each given $50,000 to the effort

went public and asked they be dropped...

...The ads have now been dropped, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reports, but

there's more negativity ahead. Jonathan Chait, who writes for the formerly

liberal New Republic -- which this week features a critique of Dean's religious

beliefs -- has launched the "Dean-o-phobe Blog." Blogs have become part of

the political vitriol machine, feeding venom to the established media and

turning the political process into a 24/7 online food-fight..."
http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/news/columnists/collholmes12292003.htm
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 10:23 am
did anyone hear, on CNN this morning something about Dean finding religion? I heard the headline, but had to leave for work so didn't hear the entire story. Did anyone else hear it? I was curious what it meant.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 10:53 am
This is one story in it Lola:

Quote:
Dean starts to talk religion
Attacks GOP, vows to expand on his beliefs
By Sarah Schweitzer, Globe Staff, 12/28/2003

WATERLOO, Iowa -- Democratic presidential contender Howard Dean peppered an attack on Republican leaders yesterday with religious references, the first showing of what he promised last week would be a broader introduction of religion into his talk on the stump.

''Let's get into a little religion here,'' Dean said at a morning meeting with voters in response to a question about his beliefs. ''Don't you think Jerry Falwell reminds you a lot more of the Pharisees than he does of the teachings of Jesus? And don't you think this campaign ought to be about evicting the money changers from the temple?''

Dean, 55, who is a Congregationalist, has run a largely secular campaign to date, rarely speaking about religion except to offer support for separation of church and state.

But in an interview last week, Dean said he planned to share his religious views on the trail more frequently, particularly as his campaign moves south into states like South Carolina, which holds its primary Feb. 3.

Yesterday, Dean said, ''So we can talk a lot about religion, and you're going to find out that there are a lot of people who are religious in this country and not every one of us feels obligated to talk about it all the time.''

In a change of practice for the campaign, the Waterloo event got underway with an invocation from a local minister, the Rev. ConGarry Williams, who was asked to speak by one of the regional organizers, according to a campaign spokesman.

At the event, Dean picked up the endorsement of US Representative Bob Menendez of New Jersey, the third highest-ranking Democrat in the House and the highest-ranking Latino in congressional history. He is Dean's 28th congressional endorsement, pulling Dean closer to rival US Representative Richard A. Gephardt's congressional endorsement tally, which stands at 34..

Meanwhile, as Dean came under blistering attack by another contender for the Democratic nomination, Senator John F. Kerry of Massachusetts, who was speaking in New Hampshire, the former Vermont governor stepped up his own rhetoric, dipping into the kind of anti-GOP lines that won him notice early in his campaign. ''Republican constituencies are not us,'' Dean said. ''They are corporations and very, very wealthy individuals.''

But he also seemed at pains to find balance between optimism and anger.

Dean has been criticized by some who say that being the ''anti-Bush'' candidate will win partisans who make up a large chunk of primary voters but will lose the support of crucial swing votes in the general election.

''We don't think there is a reason to give up,'' Dean said in answer to a question from an audience member about the tone of his message. ''This really is a campaign which is based much more on hope. Anger is part of it because I think we have a right to be angry, because our government has given us up for their corporate sponsors. But I also think this country was founded by ordinary people.''

On a day that took Dean to campaign stops across eastern Iowa, Dean used a lunchtime break to offer his thoughts about mad cow disease. At Morg's diner in Waterloo, Dean took a big bite of a hamburger, and mugging for television cameras, declared, ''I think the nation's beef supply is very safe.''

At the Waterloo event, Dean seemed primed and ready to talk about religion when an audience member pressed him to elaborate on his views. But he seemed exercised by criticism he had encountered since unveiling his plans to share his religious beliefs with voters.

Yesterday, Dean told voters in Waterloo, ''I think religion is important and spiritual values are very important, which is what this election is really about,'' before looping back to a regular line in his stump speech lamenting the loss of jobs in America.

The line that drew applause, though, was this: ''I am pretty religious. I pray every day but I'm from New England, so I just keep it to myself.''


I posted this in it's entirety because the Boston Globe (where it ran yesterday) only leaves it free to read for 48 hours.

The Globe has run several articles about Dean's "religious push" of late over the last two weeks or so.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 11:04 am
Quote:
http://images.washtimes.com/images/twt-maintop2.gif
Dean touts a 'Jesus strategy'
From combined dispatches

Dec 24, 2003


Howard B. Dean, the front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination who had said little about the role of religion in politics, yesterday told the Boston Globe that he is a committed follower of Jesus Christ and suggested that this would be a winning campaign issue.
Mr. Dean said he will start mentioning God and Christ as the campaign moves into the South ...

... The 55-year-old physician, who is a member of the Congregationalist Church, said he does not attend church often, but prays daily. His wife is Jewish, and their two children adopted the Jewish faith.
Jesus is an important influence in his life, he told the Globe interviewer, and he probably will talk to voters about how Jesus has served as a "model" for him ...

... An ABC/Washington Post poll released this week showed that 46 percent of Southerners say a president should rely on his religious beliefs in making policy decisions, compared with 28 percent in the East and 40 percent in the rest of the nation. The Globe reported that Mr. Dean has talked of his religious beliefs to one black congregation in South Carolina, where about half of the expected primary votes will be cast by blacks.
"In a rhythmic tone notably different from his usual stampede through policy points," the newspaper reported, the former Vermont governor said: "In this house of the Lord, we know that the power rests in God's hands and in Jesus' hands for helping us. But the power also is on this, God's earth. Remember Jesus said, 'Render unto God those things that are God's but unto Caesar those things that are Caesar's.' "
Mr. Dean continued: "In this political season, there is also other power. Not as important or as strong as the power of Jesus, but it's important power in the world of politics and the world of Caesar." ...


Dean appears to plan on playing the Jesus Card in The South, where he senses it will play better than in the rest of the country. A man of firm convictions, he was raised Catholic, became an Episcopalian, left the Episcopal Church over a disputed bicycle path, professes to be a Congregationalist but appears nowhere on the parish roles of any Congregationalist church, does not attend church regularly, and his children have been raised in the Jewish Faith. All this will work real well for him. HeHeHeHeHe Twisted Evil
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 11:47 am
like I said from the beginning, I support Kucinich but then I don't think armericans really go for intelligence with integrity.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:07 pm
dys, It's because intelligence and integrity is lacking in the voting public. They don't know what it looks like any more.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 12:49 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
dys, It's because intelligence and integrity is lacking in the voting public. They don't know what it looks like any more.

And you wonder why The Left gets tagged as "Elitist" ... the voting public certainly knows what it doesn't like. It doesn't like being talked down to, being dissed, being underestimated, being pandered to, being ranted at. If The Dems were to figure out, and act on, that being FOR something would gather more voters than merely being stridently against Bush the Younger, the Republicans might have something to worry about. As things stand, and as things appear to be trending, The Republicans will have the luxury of being able to devote vast resources and considerable energy to Congressional and Senatorial contests while coasting to Presidential Reelection.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 01:23 pm
Well, it's just good politics as far as I'm concerned. One must fight fire with fire.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 01:26 pm
timber, I've said as much about the democrats trying to run a campaign without a rudder. All they have done is fight amongst themselves, because they have nothing to offer the voters. It seems even Dean is falling apart at the seams. FYI, I'm not a "leftist" or "elistist," whatever those term implies. I'm for a "common sense" government for the people, by the people, but as things look now, there's not much hope. At least most people think GWBush is offering them the best option; something or nothing.
0 Replies
 
Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Dec, 2003 02:11 pm
I think it's a mistake to think in terms of easily defined proof of integrity or honesty. It's a complicated world and to make it, one must learn to manage the complications in as fair and just a way as possible. Easy rules about integrity provide a sense of security, but they don't offer much in terms of how to get from A to B. If we were all alike, it would be much easier, I think......but we're not. Thank the sky for that.
0 Replies
 
 

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