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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 01:13 pm
Quote:
<ominous twitch of the eye>

A little trigeminal palsy there,Nimh? Wink
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 01:14 pm
I'm an ABB guy; therefore, will just wait until the dust settles..................
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Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 01:58 pm
nimh,

I did indeed indict namecalling. And it was namecalling used against the Able2Know members. Since context is important, the part you left out (that I had only spoken up because of an explicit call to start insulting Able2Know members) is hugely relevant. Were it simply a sarky comment about a political party you know I wouldn't have bothered.

A difficult distinction to make is the name calling directed at members versus that of public figures, but nonetheless an important distinction (as far as site rules go).

In any case, this is circular now, and we are unlikely to achieve anything from further discussion of this topic, so kudos for a really funny last line and I'll find the door.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 02:08 pm
Quote:
One very prominent Southern Democrat, who asked not to be identified, said of Howard Dean, "This guy will take us down like the Titanic. "

I thought only conservatives said that of Dean, and that their claims were completely unfounded. :wink:
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 02:10 pm
hehheh Scrat ... touche ;-)
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 02:15 pm
Getting back to the topic (at least I think it is): What do people make of Lieberman's triumphalism after Saddam's capture? Hard for me to accept that this somehow proves him right or makes him a tougher candidate for Bush to beat. If capturing Saddam justifies the war, they why not just vote for Bush?

Yet the argument is being made that this will help Lieberman and hurt Dean. Interesting...
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:14 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
Getting back to the topic (at least I think it is): What do people make of Lieberman's triumphalism after Saddam's capture? Hard for me to accept that this somehow proves him right or makes him a tougher candidate for Bush to beat. If capturing Saddam justifies the war, they why not just vote for Bush?

Can I have an "Amen!"? Cool
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:39 pm
It was a rhetorical question, Scrat, but cheer if you want...
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:40 pm
how does the capture of Saddam in any way justify the war on Iraq?
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BillW
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:43 pm
1/2 trillion dollars, 500 dead, 2000+ wounded, - one man Question
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:51 pm
Huh? Are you guys on drugs?

No more threat of Saddam retaking power after the US leaves. No more threats from die-hard Baathists about what saddam will do when he regains power. No more listening to certain people complain about the fact we have captured Saddam. Hell, that last one is probably worth it alone.
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hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:54 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Huh? Are you guys on drugs?

No, since Rush that has become a conservative pursuit! Very Happy

Quote:
No more threat of Saddam retaking power after the US leaves.


Never heard that one!

Quote:
No more threats from die-hard Baathists about what saddam will do when he regains power.

Haven't heard that one either.

Quote:
No more listening to certain people complain about the fact we have captured Saddam. Hell, that last one is probably worth it alone.

Osama whom? Wink
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:56 pm
See? Now you can only whine about one person. :wink:
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:58 pm
Let's face it--The rationale behind the war evolved as time went on. Remember the threat posed by weapons of mass destruction? After that failed to materialize, it became, well, Saddam is an evil man who had to be deposed and brought to justice.

Under the revised rationale, it's all been worthwhile. "We got 'em!" No more need be said.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 03:59 pm
McGentrix wrote:
Huh? Are you guys on drugs?

No more threat of Saddam retaking power after the US leaves. No more threats from die-hard Baathists about what saddam will do when he regains power. No more listening to certain people complain about the fact we have captured Saddam. Hell, that last one is probably worth it alone.

Not to mention the value of the reality of his behavior when captured as a cure to the myth of his great fierce, false bravado. Saddam not only lost his freedom, he lost his gonads, and his standing on the Arab street with those who admired him. In the end, he was a coward, hiding meekly in a hole, who gave no resistance at his capture, and submitted meekly to the victors. Certainly puts the lie to the myth of the man.

Oh, and Dys... I knew yours was a rhetorical statement, and my "Amen" was simple humor. Capturing Saddam just lets us check another item off our list of things to do to thwart terror and the growth of anti-Western Islamism in the Middle East.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 04:24 pm
A Nazi tactic.
"thwart terror and the growth of anti-Western Islamism in the Middle East."

Saddam and the Baath Party were not seen as Islamic nor a threat to the West, except in the planted lie by the Neo con Dis-info campaign.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 04:58 pm
Re: A Nazi tactic.
pistoff wrote:
"thwart terror and the growth of anti-Western Islamism in the Middle East."

Saddam and the Baath Party were not seen as Islamic nor a threat to the West, except in the planted lie by the Neo con Dis-info campaign.

I never said they were, nor do I recall anyone else saying so at the last Neo con Dis-info campaign meeting. Rolling Eyes

The point is that Iraq was a state already in default of its commitment to the US and the world, with a ruthless thug at the helm and ready for a change. The hope is that the "new" Iraq will be one far more favorably disposed towards the West, which disposition will act to shift the balance of opinion in the region away from the dangerous and often state-sponsored hatred for Israel, the US, and the Western world.
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pistoff
 
  1  
Reply Mon 15 Dec, 2003 07:42 pm
More Dis-Info
Why don't Repubs and Neo cons tell the truth? Because the truth is not a political advantage.

How many more Dictators that the USA sponsored and aided will the USA now declare Null and void?

Perhaps this idiotic concept of pre-emptive strike will not be favorably viewed next time or can the Americans be conned again and again?
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 12:22 am
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 16 Dec, 2003 04:27 pm
hehheh ... a few grinning points from that article you linked, lola:

Quote:
Enter Clark and the American flag. The choreography, the physical embrace of Old Glory, is both compelling and weird. There is an over-the-top intensity to it that is a Clark signature trait. The man is so tightly wound that he seems to be an ambulatory tourniquet. But he is wildly intelligent - and intellectually adventurous. His stump discourses on economics are as sophisticated as his sense of military strategy - if often a bit too sophisticated for his audience. Asked in Nashua, N.H., last week about the trade deficit, Clark noted in the course of a dense reply, "Those of you who studied economics will remember Adam Smith's case of Portuguese wine wrapped in English cloth." He peered at the audience, searching fruitlessly for a nod of acknowledgment. Receiving none perhaps because the wine-and-cloth analogy was David Ricardo's he added incomprehensibly, "Well, we're a long way from that."

[..] His least satisfying position is on the issue he says is most important: the war. He says he has a "success strategy," but he doesn't sound much different from the other Democrats. He wants NATO in charge of the military operation and the United Nations in charge of civil affairs, though neither NATO nor the U.N. has shown any appetite for these roles. He has been studiously vague about increasing or decreasing troop strength. I asked Clark if it is possible that there is no plausible "success strategy" in Iraq, if it is just a hopeless mess. He replied with admirable, if distressing, candor, "Yes, but I'm not prepared to concede that yet."


hilarious, endearing and, ehm ... ye-eeeh ... how shall we put it ... Shocked Razz
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