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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 04:38 pm
I think these are both good examples of the liberal mindset going wrong,(there are 1,000's) on the other hand we could equally say the same about the conservative mindset. a major problem for both aisles is not looking past the manifest intent to see the latent result. ie prohibition as manifest and organized crime as latent.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 04:47 pm
That pretty much nails it, IMO, Dys. The problem with Politics is that its so damned political Rolling Eyes
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 10:10 pm
I think the Democratic nomination is coming down to a choice between Dean and Clark, with Gephardt being the dark horse.

Agree or disagree?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 10:35 pm
Clark shows surprising resiliance. Dean is a given for the final playoff. Gephardt is in a tough spot ... he needs to do big stuff in Iowa, which, as anchor of The Cornbelt, is pretty pro on The Energy Bill's Methanol provisions, but Gep has been firmly against it. Interestingly, Daschle says he'll vote for it, citing his objections but seeing the ethanol provision a boost for his own state, SD. If the bill fails, Iowans may look a little less favorably on Gep, endangering his front-runner status there, which would be a disaster for him. If the bill passes, Gep's opposition to it could still play against him, particularly if Democrat support for the bill is more than just marginally enough to push it through.
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Scrat
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 11:00 pm
PDiddie wrote:
I think the Democratic nomination is coming down to a choice between Dean and Clark, with Gephardt being the dark horse.

Agree or disagree?

Agree. I think Dean will end up walking away with it, but I could be wrong.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Thu 20 Nov, 2003 11:03 pm
Meanwhile, in other Iowa news:
Quote:
Largest Pot Bust In Iowa History
1,325 pounds confiscated in I-80 traffic stop
[/u]



Troopers in Iowa are calling it the largest marijuana bust in state history as 1,325 pounds were confiscated during a traffic stop Thursday near Council Bluffs.

Fifty-six-year-old Edward Parker of Henderson, Nevada was pulled over for speeding on Interstate 80 in Pottawattamie County. The trooper said Parker claimed art supplies were in the silver packages, but Quatro the drug dog sniffed out the marijuana, which has an estimated street value of $2.2 million. The patrol also seized a large amount of cash and a Ford pickup.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 08:45 am
Kerry comes back swingin'

Quote:
http://www.bostonherald.com/images/news_adlogo.gif

Kerry begins fight for his political life

by David R. Guarino
Friday, November 21, 2003


Admitting he's fighting for his political life, John F. Kerry today launches an all-out bid to reclaim the presidential primary lead with 24-hour campaign days and big spending in key states ...

... He'll continue to rail against what he has called President Bush's ``raw deal'' and lay out the first 100 days of a Kerry administration, his ``real deal'' focused on several core Democratic issues in a bid to pull votes from Dean.

But Dean spokeswoman Dorie Clark said, ``John Kerry can try to recreate himself a hundred times but he's already very much a known commodity in New Hampshire.''

Dante Scala, a St. Anselm's College political science professor, said Kerry will have to do more than focus on core voters - he has to take down Dean.

``Comparative ads, contrast ads, negative ads, call them what you will, Kerry's got to get the spotlight on Dean in a negative way and take some glean off his candidacy,'' Scala said. ``That's what will dislodge the Dean voters.''


This oughtta be amusing.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 06:57 pm
Name the quote!

Who was quoted as ... (don't peek now)

1. arguing against more American troops and in favor of arming Iraqis, who have been ruled until now by Americans "walled up in a compound in Baghdad, contemptuous of those swarthy, gesticulating folk on the outside."

2. [saying] "If we still have 100,000 soldiers in Iraq at the end of the year, then this is no longer a liberation; it's just a military occupation"

3. [saying] American troops belong in a "backup role" while we should quickly cede authority to Iraqis, "even with some inherent disorder."

4. [saying] bringing in more American troops "could jeopardize our long-term goal to transfer authority" and could make the Iraqi government "more dependent on American power."








And the answers are, folks:

1. Danielle Pletka of the American Enterprise Institute
2. a Defense Department official in April
3. Newt Gingrich
4. Heritage Foundation analyst James Phillips


Confused? TNR points out that a rift in views on Iraq among the neocons reflects perspectives almost as diverging as those between Republicans and Democrats - or among Democrats, for that matter, "with officials who have worked closely with the Iraqi opposition arguing for Iraqification and those in the John McCain/Project for the New American Century orbit arguing that the strategy reflects a loss of will."

The Weekly Standard folks want to respond to the attacks in Iraq with more American troops. But centred around the Pentagon are the "Iraqifiers" - "the heirs and custodians of the Reagan Doctrine" (a reference to the brilliant August article about the Right's very own "Che" episodes). Ironically, what they end up arguing is much the same thing as those Deanite "liberals who still argue that the answer is internationalization". "Each side approaches Iraq from a different direction, but both end up in the same place: generating excuses to leave".

(The article notes this disapprovingly, quoting McCain and others to convincingly enough show why a hasty retreat would be disastrous. But it doesn't quite make clear how, then, to best ward off the risk of seeing, "walled up in a compound in Baghdad", liberation turn into occupation turn into neo-imperialism - as paternalistic as any UN operation, but throwing a lot more bombs around ...)

Confusing times ahead ... I guess with so many scenarios being played out - yielding (more) control to the UN, staying to keep a tight grip on (military) command, retreating and leaving Iraq to the Chalabiites to save - or any combination of the above - there will be ever more political faultlines on the matter.

That would make it harder for the Democrats (Dean) to mobilise people around some clear for-or-against on the matter, I think?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 07:43 pm
Per the NYTimes today (and alerts to us MoveOn members), the Repubs are coming out with some expensive and dreadful ads showing Bush as hero with Dems trying to shoot him down. Bush as hero -- did you absorb that?
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Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 07:51 pm
They might successfully present him as a Demicog.

That's a small, creaky wheel in the political machinery.
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cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 08:07 pm
LW, That should be "demigod."
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fishin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 08:10 pm
Tartarin wrote:
Per the NYTimes today (and alerts to us MoveOn members), the Repubs are coming out with some expensive and dreadful ads showing Bush as hero with Dems trying to shoot him down. Bush as hero -- did you absorb that?


The ads were shown on tonight's ABC Evening News and they hardly do either. Not one single opponent is named in them and the ads are nothing but pieces of his previous speeches clipped together.
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 08:14 pm
Well, that's bad enough, Fishin'!!
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 09:16 pm
Absolutely, Tart. Its entirely inappropriate for an interest group to air a few commercials in the interest of a sitting president while a gaggle of replacement-wannabees harangue and attack that sitting president at every opportunity and from every forum to which they've had access for around a year now. What arrogance, what effrontery, supporting a sitting president. The very idea is reprehensible ... what's next? Why, that sitting president might even start campaigning right back against those seeking to unseat him. That would be totally unacceptable, wouldn't it?
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2003 10:03 pm
Timber said
Quote:
"Why, that sitting president might even start campaigning right back against those seeking to unseat him. That would be totally unacceptable, wouldn't it?

no I don't think so but I reckon it's might unusual for a sitting president to launch an ad campaign this early in the game. and that makes me think he is starting early with a defensive posture. So, just perhaps he is feeling a little heat from the polls.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 12:08 am
Interesting you should mention polls, Dys. One that will be getting some attention over the weekend has just been released. I don't have all the data, but you can catch a brief preview Here

There's a bit in there about the Candidate-Hopefuls, too. It appears Dean has an edge, but Clark, Kerry, and Gephardt's numbers all are within the poll's stated margin of error.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 12:21 am
The ad claims that Dems want to 'retreat' (the word is in bold color), and bush is portrayed - again - as resolute and steadfast and brave. It's a no-brainer, but that matches the constituency targeted.

The thing is, of course, how else do you market this boy? You can't suggest he is anything like a thoughtful, educated, curious Lincoln sort of guy, because Lincoln could really talk and this boy can't talk - well, he can, but the Rove team know that when he does, it shows george is rather short on the thinkbox stuff. And it shows up real fast.

You can't go displaying his medals for courage in battle, so there no 'Ike' thing you can do. But you are really really wanting to go to war and be all aggressive and manly so the jangly-with-medals-and-flush-with-private-contracts folks, you know, forget they had their balls cut off in viet nam by embarrassingly dimunitive yellow people, so because nobody knows who Ike is anyway, and because they read comics just like the President - ureka..."Hey, let's do GI Joe!! Give him a big package! Hell, that might even get a few gay votes!" (laughs, backslapping)

(narration switches to room with table and people sitting around it, perplexed, hands to brows, in active thought)...

"And we can't really make him the Education President, because of that obvious stuff we went over before. And you can't make him the Drug President, because everyone knows he was the President's Drug Son.

We could do the Business Genius President, but then we'd have to get the CIA do the brake-failure erasure thing on a LOT of people....****! Whadda we do??

OK...let's look at his strong points...(long pause)...He's a simple guy...(eager nods all around) really simple...how do we use that? What's good about 'simple'? Uh...it's not...complicated...It's not intellectual, that's for godamn sure! Not pantywaist 'can't make up your pinko fukkin mind about nothin'...That's It!!!! He's made up his mind!! Oh, this is a WINNER!! So...he's got a mind, that's a freebee right off the top! But he BELIEVES something. That's the kicker right there...they don't know WHAT THE **** TO BELIEVE...and they WANT our help! We'll give it to them. This guy is going to believe and believe and believe...and we'll get him to stick his jaw out!

Damn! There's RESOLUTION for ya! Have I got a winner or have I got a winner!"

(fast motion, soundless, quick shuffle of papers and bodies flowing out door...door closed...dead quiet...coming up from bottom screen, George Washington double, with long rabbit ears and carrot..."Tha a a a a a t's all folks"


Ya gotta wonder...how many sleepless nights has Barbara had since her son became president?
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Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:10 am
I think the early ads -- and their content -- prove what we've been saying all along -- Bush is a ward boss/politician, not a president. Today's the day we remember who the presidents have been.
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Sofia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:16 am
Yep. All hail to the man who got the Presidency as a present from daddy, started VietNam, and nearly ended the Cold War by starting WWIII.

He wasn't all bad, but a standard.... Mad
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Sat 22 Nov, 2003 08:26 am
Sophia,sweet thing.
If you hadn't mentioned Viet Nam I would swear you were talking about the "genius" in the White House.
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