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2004 Elections: Democratic Party Contenders

 
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 01:22 pm
Now, I don't normally quote opinion pieces, and I'm not big on cut-and-paste, but I got a real kick outta this, from Counterpunch, an outfit not fond of "The Right" and held in high regard particularly by the Anti-War faction of "The Left":

Then: Counterpunch May 5, 1999
Quote:
Meet the Real General Clark



Anyone seeking to understand the bloody fiasco of the Serbian war need hardly look further than the person of the beribboned Supreme Allied Commander, General Wesley K. Clark. Politicians and journalists are generally according him a respectful hearing as he discourses on the "schedule" for the destruction of Serbia, tellingly embracing phrases favored by military bureaucrats such as "systematic" and "methodical".

The reaction from former army subordinates is very different. "The poster child for everything that is wrong with the GO (general officer) corps," exclaims one colonel, who has had occasion to observe Clark in action, citing, among other examples, his command of the 1st Cavalry Division at Fort Hood from 1992 to 1994.

While Clark's official Pentagon biography proclaims his triumph in "transitioning the Division into a rapidly deployable force" this officer describes the "1st Horse Division" as "easily the worst division I have ever seen in 25 years of doing this stuff."

Such strong reactions are common. A major in the 3rd Brigade of the 4th Infantry Division at Fort Carson, Colorado when Clark was in command there in the early 1980s described him as a man who "regards each and every one of his subordinates as a potential threat to his career".

While he regards his junior officers with watchful suspicion, he customarily accords the lower ranks little more than arrogant contempt. A veteran of Clark's tenure at Fort Hood recalls the general's "massive tantrum because the privates and sergeants and wives in the crowded (canteen) checkout lines didn't jump out of the way fast enough to let him through".

Clark's demeanor to those above is, of course, very different, a mode of behavior that has earned him rich dividends over the years. Thus, early in 1994, he was a candidate for promotion from two to three star general. Only one hurdle remained - a war game exercise known as the Battle Command Training Program in which Clark would have to maneuver his division against an opposing force. The commander of the opposing force, or "OPFOR" was known for the military skill with which he routinely demolished opponents.

But Clark's patrons on high were determined that no such humiliation should be visited on their favorite. Prior to the exercise therefore, strict orders came down that the battle should go Clark's way. Accordingly, the OPFOR was reduced in strength by half, thus enabling Clark, despite deploying tactics of signal ineptitude, to triumph. His third star came down a few weeks later.

Battle exercises and war games are of course meant to test the fighting skills of commanders and troops. The army's most important venue for such training is the National Training Center at Fort Irwin, California, where Clark commanded from October 1989 to October 1991 and where his men derisively nicknamed him "Section Leader Six" for his obsessive micro-management.

At the NTC, army units face a resident OPFOR that has, through constant battle practice coupled with innovative tactics and close knowledge of the terrain, become adept at routing the visiting "Blue Force" opponents. For Clark, this naturally posed a problem. Not only were his men using unconventional tactics, they were also humiliating Blue Force generals who might nurture resentment against the NTC commander and thus discommode his career at some future date. To the disgust of the junior OPFOR officers Clark therefore frequently fought to lose, sending his men on suicidal attacks in order that the Blue Forces should go home happy and owing debts of gratitude to their obliging foe.

All observers agree that Clark has always displayed an obsessive concern with the perquisites and appurtenances of rank. Ever since he acceded to the Nato command post, the entourage with which he travels has accordingly grown to gargantuan proportions to the point where even civilians are beginning to comment. A Senate aide recalls his appearances to testify, prior to which aides scurry about the room adjusting lights, polishing his chair, testing the microphone etc prior to the precisely timed and choreographed moment when the Supreme Allied Commander Europe makes his entrance.

"We are state of the art pomposity and arrogance up here," remarks the aide. "So when a witness displays those traits so egregiously that even the senators notice, you know we're in trouble." His NATO subordinates call him, not with affection, "the Supreme Being".

"Clark is smart," concludes one who has monitored his career. "But his whole life has been spent manipulating appearances (e.g. the doctored OPFOR exercise) in the interests of his career. Now he is faced with a reality he can't control." This observer concludes that, confronted with the wily Slobodan and other unavoidable variables of war, Clark will soon come unglued. "Watch the carpets at NATO HQ for teeth marks."




Now: Counterpunch, September 10, 2003
Quote:
The General Who Would Be President
Was Wesley Clark Also Unprepared for the Post-War Bloodbath?
By ZOLTAN GROSSMAN

In his apparent quest for the Democratic Presidential nomination, General Wesley Clark rightly criticizes President Bush for waging a "pre-emptive" invasion of Iraq, and in particular for being "unprepared" for the post-invasion occupation of the country. Some Democrats are being drawn to the former NATO Supreme Commander as an authoritative voice against the Iraq debacle, and a "pragmatic" alternative to the disastrous Bush Presidency.

Yet these Democrats apparently have short memories. It was only four years ago that General Clark waged a war against Yugoslavia that had similarly shaky motives and spiraling postwar consequences. Clark has whitewashed the 1999 Kosovo intervention as a "humanitarian" campaign to rescue Kosovar Albanians from Serbian "ethnic cleansing," even though it actually helped fuel the forced explusions. The General credits NATO bombing of Serbian cities for bringing about the fall of Yugoslav President Slobodan Milosevic, even though Serbian democrats loudly objected that it undermined and delayed their ultimate victory. Clark claims that the postwar NATO occupation brought "peace" to Kosovo, but he was clearly unprepared for the violent "ethnic cleansing" that took place on his watch, largely facilitated by his decisions, under the noses of his troops.

First, the NATO intervention made a bad situation worse in Kosovo. The nasty civil war between Milosevic's Serbian nationalist government and the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) militia in the Albanian-majority province had heated up in 1998-99. About 2,000 people had been killed, including civilians on both sides. Voices within the Clinton Administration clamored not only for "punishing" Milosevic, but for (pre-emptively) ejecting Serbian forces from Kosovo to prevent him from carrying out ethnic cleansing. Under Western pressure, Milosevic offered to withdraw from Kosovo, but the peace talks broke down.

Hours after the NATO bombing of Yugoslavia began on March 24, 1999, the Serbian ethnic cleansing campaign began, expelling hundreds of thousands of Albanians, and creating an enormous refugee crisis. CIA director George Tenet had predicted in February that a NATO "stick in the nest" could provoke just such ethnic cleansing. Accused of being "unprepared," General Clark defended the war as "coercive diplomacy," saying "This is the way the NATO leaders wanted it." The bombing was not in response to the ethnic explusions, but gave Milosevic the excuse and justification for them. The Kosovo disaster was a self-fulfilling prophecy, much like President Bush invading Iraq to eject phantom "terrorists," and in the process creating a new cause and battleground for them.

Second, the NATO bombing alienated Serbian civilians who had led the opposition to Milosevic. Cities that had voted heavily against Milosevic were among those targeted with bombing. U.S. jets dropped cluster bombs on a crowded marketplace in Nis. Civilian infrastructure, such as trains, busses, bridges, TV stations, civilian factories, hospitals and power plants, were repeatedly hit by NATO bombs. Depleted Uranium munitions left behind radioactive dust around targets, and bombed chemical plants released clouds of poisonous smoke. Estimates of civilian deaths in the bombing range from 500 to 2,000, with the Washington Post estimating 1,600 (a tally is at <www.counterpunch.org/dead.html> ) These civilian casualties are largely forgotten by those who feel that bombs dropped by a Democratic president are somehow more noble than those dropped by a Republican president.

The Serbian democratic opposition strongly condemned the bombing as undermining and delaying their efforts to oust President Milosevic, and as strengthening his police state. It was not the NATO bombing but Serbs' largely nonviolent revolution that overthrew Milosevic in October 2000, and replaced him with democratic leader Vojislav Kostunica, who had opposed NATO's war. In much the same way, many Iraqis who hated Saddam Hussein have criticized U.S. betrayals and sanctions--under both Bush and Clinton administrations--for strengthening Saddam's hand. Many of these same Sunnis and Shi'ites repressed by Saddam are today calling for the U.S. to withdraw from Iraq, in order to regain their sovereignty.

Third, as NATO troops occupied Kosovo in June 1999, Albanian nationalists unleashed their own program of ethnic cleansing. They attacked and expelled not only thousands of Serbs from communities that had survived in Kosovo for centuries, but also Roma (Gypsies), Turks, Jews, and any other non-Albanians. The Western media defined these attacks as "revenge" or "retaliation" for Serbian ethnic cleansing. But the KLA militia, like its right-wing nationalist counterparts in Bosnia, had long had the goal of an ethnically pure state. Instead of cracking down on the KLA fighters, NATO invited them to join its new Kosovo Protection Corps police force. In the months after the NATO occupation began, Kosovo became far more ethnically "pure" than Milosevic had ever made it, with the percentage of ethnic minorities lower than ever in its history. Amnesty International observed that General Clark's NATO was "unprepared for the massive abuses of human rights" under the postwar occupation.

Most U.S. media reviews of the wars in former Yugoslavia describe U.S. and NATO interventions as well-intentioned efforts to halt "ethnic cleansing." Yet the perception in the Balkan region is far different. The U.S. never dropped a single bomb to stop Croatian forces from ethnic cleansing of Serbs or Bosnian Muslims (in fact, U.S. bombing backed up Croatian forces hours before they forcibly expelled Serbs from Croatia in 1995). The memory of NATO in former Yugoslavia is not of a neutral "peacekeeper," but of a military that took sides with Croatian and Albanian ethnic cleansers against Serbian ethnic cleansers. Postwar agreements (with Clark's involvement) merely rubberstamped the de facto ethnic partitions of Bosnia and Kosovo that had long been sought by their nationalist militias.

Like in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. interventions in ex-Yugoslavia left behind a new cluster of U.S. military bases, including the sprawling Camp Bondsteel in U.S. Sector Kosovo. Together, this string of permanent U.S. bases stretching from Hungary to Pakistan is creating a new U.S. "sphere of influence" in the strtegic region between the European Union and East Asia. General Clark was surely aware that the U.S. presence in Kosovo would not be temporary, and uses the prospect of ethnic instability to justify it, much as President Bush does to justify a long-term presence in Iraq. Earlier this year, as one of the slew of cable news "armchair generals" coldly assessed the advance of the Iraq invasion, Clark never challenged the underlying premise that the U.S. military should oust Saddam, rather than the Iraqi people, or that the U.S. should have a permanent presence in the Gulf region.

The 1999 Kosovo War had similar origins and outcomes as the 2003 Iraq War. In the 2004 election, do we face the hideous prospect of voting for one flawed war over another? Far from posing a "pragmatic" alternative to President Bush, Clark's ascendancy would be a failure for the peace movement that has made such advances in community organizing over the past year. In order not to alienate the large segment of the electorate energized by the movement, Democrats are well advised not to nominate a leader with blood on his hands.

www.counterpunch.org

What do I think of a Clark candicacy for President? HeHeHeHe ... "Bring it on".
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 01:28 pm
Heck, timber, it's not only democrats that have short memories. The mass in tihs country still think al Qaida and Saddam had connections on nine-eleven. It's not memory that bothers me so much as our inability to understand what is true and what is false.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 02:00 pm
Short memory, c.i.?

Al Queda in Iraq

Just one of the more recent articles linking Al Queda to Iraq. There are lots of them, going back a couple years at least. Short Memory, Short Sighted, or Selective Memory? The evidence leads me to believe there is and has been a connection.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 02:03 pm
timber,

There is lots of doublespeak in this thread, are you saying that there was Iraqi complicity in 9/11?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 02:20 pm
No, I don't postulate there was/is a link between Iraq and 9/11. I do however contend that Al Queda and Saddam's regime had high level links of long standing, whether or not 9/11 was a factor. I doubt there was any direct Iraqi complicity in 9/11.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 02:30 pm
So you'd agree with the thrust of c.i.'s post (despite it having some linguistic leeway)?

That the American people, by and large, are incorrect in their belief that there existed complicity between Sadaam and the 9/11 hijackers.
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 02:47 pm
NPR and the NYTimes have done some pretty in depth reporting on the government's much-touted financial assistance to victims of 9/11 this week and, hmmm, guess what? The airlines and banks and those guys made out like bandits. The small business owners and everyone else have not gotten any (some) or all (others) of what was promised. Cronyism in victim relief. Need to get some klieg lights shining on this: not good for W.

Timber, aside from lack of evidence to back up your contention about Al Qaeda and Iraq, we can be sure Al Qaeda has got its claws into Iraq nice and deep now thanks to the incompetence the administration has shown in planning for the aftermath of the invasion, and considering the fact that the fundamentalists (which Saddam kept a tight rein on) are out there running around.

Because you have (or had) family there, because you are (I think) a military person, I'm somewhat sympathetic to your tenaciousness about the validity of the invasion, but you yourself will have to admit that the American military -- the guys on the ground not in the Pentagon's office suites -- are caught between a rock (the bloody, thoughtless administration) and a hard place (the Iraqis and other non-Iraqi Arabs) who deeply and understandably resent our invasion). If I were in your shoes, I'd be mad as hell at the guys who stirred up this mess and who've left the military to cope. If there are ever occasions for summary justice, this is certainly one.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 02:53 pm
timber, All of our intelligence agencies have not found any connection; if they had, it would have been plastered all over the media. As a matter of fact, all the intelligence agencies have said they can't find any connection. So, why is it that many Americans still believe there is?
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 03:15 pm
Quote:
Analysis: Insiders slam Bush's speech
By JOHN WALCOTT
Knight Ridder Newspapers

WASHINGTON - Even some officials in the president's administration worry that in his address to the nation Sunday night he glossed over his shifting rationales for war in Iraq, oversimplified the sources of anti-American rage there and overstated the benefits of victory, both to the war on terrorism and to American policy in the Middle East.
Making the war in Iraq a central part of the war on terrorism that Osama bin Laden started two years ago this week sidestepped Bush's earlier rationale for war in Iraq - Iraq's alleged chemical and biological weapons and its nuclear ambitions - and ignored the fact that it was the American-led invasion that made Iraq a magnet for international terrorists, these officials said.

Before the war, intelligence analysts at the CIA, the State Department and the Pentagon acknowledged there was no evidence of cooperation between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida and no evidence of an Iraqi hand in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. None has yet surfaced....
http://www.bayarea.com/mld/mercurynews/news/special_packages/iraq/6723820.htm
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 03:42 pm
I want to thank you, timber, for responding so quickly to my earlier requests to back up your opinions with some more authoritative ones.

I'm still struck by the "sour grapes" aspect of all of them, even David Hackworth's (a guy that normally deserves all the respect he gets).

The episode where two subordinate (I presume subordinate, as Clark is always referred to as the Supreme Commander) generals defy his direct order? Well, no wonder America dislikes UN operations; ain't them court-martialin' words in our Army?

And all those petty stories and nicknames. He was allowed to win a war game to earn his third star?

(Remember the movie "Outbreak" where the out-of-control general portrayed by Donald Sutherland is overruled and then relieved by Morgan Freeman? For some reason I was reminded of this...)

If this is as bad as it gets, you're right about one thing: bring it on!

(edited for spelling)
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:11 pm
timberlandko wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
The mass in tihs country still think al Qaida and Saddam had connections on nine-eleven. It's not memory that bothers me so much as our inability to understand what is true and what is false.

Short memory, c.i.?

Al Queda in Iraq

Just one of the more recent articles linking Al Queda to Iraq. [..] Short Memory, Short Sighted, or Selective Memory? The evidence leads me to believe there is and has been a connection.


Amazing. I mean, your reference to this article.

It's a good article, so I'm grateful for the link. I just read it - lo-ong, but very interesting. Must be some 14 screens' worth of text. It's full of credible-sounding information. Lots about the link between IraN and Al-Qaeda for example, about which I'd been sceptical. And foremost: about the huge, post-invasion inflow of Al-Qaeda operatives into US-occupied Iraq.

All through its second section, the article details how, "hundreds of foreign fighters have begun to flow into the country", "thousands of potential fighters are hearing — and heeding — calls to go to Iraq to fight the infidel" and so forth: "They are coming," said an Arab official from a country that borders Iraq. "They are coming from everywhere."

Meanwhile, in all of the 14 screens' worth of text, all of one link is made between Al-Qaeda and the old, Saddam Iraqi leadership. It's this:

Quote:
Zarqawi had had a leg amputated at an exclusive Baghdad clinic in 2002, suggesting he had connections to government figures in Iraq, but European officials scoffed at the larger allegation [that he was a key link between the government of Saddam Hussein [..] and al Qaeda]. Zarqawi was an independent operator, they said, citing the interrogation of some of his allies in Germany.

Thats it.

Zarqawi is identified as "the head of a cluster of Arabs who had attached themselves to Ansar-al-Islam, a Kurdish fundamentalist group vowing to establish an Islamic state in northern Iraq", which before the war operated from the Kurdish-held area - out of Saddam's reach.

The article says Zarqawi had "fled Iraq's Kurdish northern region" in anticipation of a U.S. clampdown of his group - not to Saddam's territory, but to Iran, where in February this year, when the US invasion of Iraq was nigh, he met up with the military chief of Al-Qaeda. It was after that encounter, according to the article, that he was "dispatch[ed] to become al Qaeda's man in Iraq", his task: "to form a new network" there.

He started work "later in the spring", after being "allowed safe passage [..] to Iraq [when] U.S. and British forces were occupying the country". Leading the way for thousands other Al-Qaeda people flowing in after the US toppled Saddam, "Zarqawi then became what the Americans had charged but never proved [..]: al Qaeda's man in Iraq." In these times of US occupation, it seems, Al-Qaeda has finally staked down in Baghdad.

Along the same lines, your article describes the current presence of Al-Qaeda in Iraq as "a new chapter in the history of the group", traces its presence to "February, as U.S. forces were preparing to attack" and notes that it was then that "the turn toward Iraq was made". The headline itself calls it a "strategy shift".

Your article never even tries to make a case for some pre-existing Al-Qaeda presence in Saddam's Iraq, instead focusing solely on the threat of "Zarqawi's mission to form a new network" (emphasis mine) - a network still "embryonic", but definitely "a threat down the line". When it comes to terrorists and Iraq, going on this article, the problem wasnt Saddam - it's what happening since he's gone.

You may ask one question: how did Zarqawi get his 2002 ticket to that Baghdad clinic? But that open question seems altogether a bit slim a ground for touting this article as "evidence" for your case that "Al Queda and Saddam's regime had high level links of long standing".

But - you might have more, of course ...
0 Replies
 
Tartarin
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:26 pm
"Before the war, intelligence analysts at the CIA, the State Department and the Pentagon acknowledged there was no evidence of cooperation between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaida and no evidence of an Iraqi hand in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks. None has yet surfaced."

And this is the intelligence the administration got -- even though they lied about it. Seems to me that's the last word. It has been reiterated god knows how many times but American "testarudos" just don't seem to get it!
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:27 pm
george

Don't wish to throw off the direction of the thread, so just a final little note to you here...

There was a fair bit of coverage on the Oui interview and it took Arnold to task for being an insensitive meathead braggard (valid) or for being involved in a group sex encounter (invalid - nobody's business) but no one I read noted what I consider to be a clear racist comment. As all comments made relate to the 1970something interview, notation of this element would be as appropriate as any other element, so why miss this one?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:44 pm
b-man:

We had a long talk about Musclehead's depravity (it's here), while you were kayaking the Inside Passage or whatever.

In the immortal words of Daddy Tomato to Baby Tomato, who lagged behind the rest of the family: "Ketchup." :wink:

Now what does everyone think about Holy Joe Lieberman dusting up Dean about Israel?
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:48 pm
There's plenty more info re Iraq/Terrorism, nimh ... of varying probity and weight, and divergent conclusion. There might be no "There" there, but it seems logical to me there is. Its another of the questions for which we still need answers. There is as yet insufficient data to form a definitive statement.

Yeah, Tart, I'm ex-military, and my kid's still there, and some nieces and nephews and freinds and acquaintences are there or recently arrived home ... I know some folks in Afghanistan, too. What I am angry about is the way the war was sold, not that it happened ... I think I've pretty well made clear my position on that, but I'll expand on it again if you wish. I am also angry about the negativism evidenced by The Media ... but I understand that good news just isn't "Good News"; it doesn't sell. A few disgruntled troops (of course, all troops are disgruntled all the time ... they ain't happy if they ain't got sumthin' ta bitch about) or a bitter Iraqi or two are much better press than the thousands and thousands and thousands who never come to a reporter's attention. If things are goin' along just fine, there ain't much to take notice of. You really do only hear about what's wrong. You don't see a headline about there being no power failure on the east coast, or that traffic moved smoothly around London all day, or that a Phillipine ferry didn't sink, or that another day without earthquakes passed in China.
0 Replies
 
hobitbob
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:56 pm
But Timber, things aren't[/i] going "just fine." That is confirmed by both the foreign press, and by comments made by troops and UN personnell in the region.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 04:58 pm
Is the glass have full or half empty? Attrition will cost Bush and, if he can't get a UN resolution, well - bye-bye!
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 05:03 pm
I'm watching this video of bin Laden and associate, hobbling along on the rocks with their canes, this man with his bad kidneys, and I'm thinking to myself, how is it possible that this guy is kicking George Bush's ass?

Oh, yeah; never mind...
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 05:05 pm
The man without the kidneys vs the brainless wonderboy - WWF at its finest!
0 Replies
 
Italgato
 
  1  
Reply Wed 10 Sep, 2003 05:06 pm
It seems that all of the effort to show that Saddam backed Al Qaeda or did not bakc Al Queda is just wasted.

The political import of the fact that over 60% of the American people( whether or not there is any real evidence and there does not seem to be) believe that Saddam aided Al Qaeda probably with money contrbutions.

What is clear to me and obviously not clear to some of the writers from the "think-tanks" that perception is reality. And, right now, around two thirds of the American Public believe that Saddam bears some responsibility for the tragic events that occured two years ago.
0 Replies
 
 

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