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The use of force by police

 
 
giujohn
 
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 06:02 pm
I have to laugh when people say being a cop is not all that dangerous. I have listened to the public and the uninformed talking heads on CNN/MSNBC opining the use of force by police as unecessary and cant figure out why they do what they do in these situations.

First, to those who say being a cop is not dangerous, go to your local PD, fill out an application, take the training and do the job...then you can talk.

As for some of the misconceptions about the training and use of force for police, here are the facts:

The first thing you must understand is that EVERY situation you go into there is always one gun present...YOURS. And this gun can be used against you.

When you employ deadly force you do not shoot to wound. (You do not fire a warning shot.) When you are in the "fight or flight" syndrone your senses suffer. So you are taught to aim for the biggest target in order to better achieve a hit to STOP THE THREAT. And you must keep shooting until the threat stops. The biggest target is CENTER MASS on the human torso. Warning shots, shooting to wound in a crisis situation is an invitation to killing an innocent bystander. The officer is responsible for EVERY bullet that leaves his gun.

Before modern police training cops were being killed by people who were shot once or twice when the officer paused to see if the offender was dead or incapacitated. Officers are trained to handcuff the shooter after being shot because in the past there "dead" people have been known to kill the officer.

The offender ALWAYS has the upperhand in a fight because he knows what he's going to do...the officer has to guess. If the offender is not complying, i.e. not taking his hands out of his pockets then makes an aggressive move the officer HAS to assume he has a gun and is going to use it and the officer must shoot first in order to live. If a police officer is chasing a subject and the person stops and spins around the officer MUST assume theat he is turning to fire; if he doesn't he could end up dead.


If an offender is with in 21 feet of and officer with an edged weapon and makes any movement forward, the officer must shoot. It has been proven that an aggessor can cover that distance and kill the officer before the officer can shoot. Even if you shoot as him just before he reaches you he will still have enough oxegenated blood in his system to kill you. Only a CNS (central nervous system) hit will drop him and THAT is a VERY small target, i.e. lucky shot. There is a famous case of an offender who was shot point blank in the heart with a .357 magnum who ran down 2 flights of stairs and 50 feet before collapsing. Using pepper spray/taser in this situation is an invitation for the officers demise.

Disparity of force. If a 300 pound 6 foot tall man is fighting with you, a 160 pound 5'9" police officer for your gun and you are injured to the point that you may lose your gun, you SHOOT the offender. If the person is getting away from you and the only way to affect the arrest is to shoot him, then you do so. (it's called the fleeing felon law) The requisite is if the fleeing felon is a violent felon and could be a futher danger to other police or the public. Beating an officer almost to unconsciousness trying to get his gun more then qualifies. The fact that he beat an officer to the point of unconsciousness and tried to get his gun is prima facia evidence of a continuing danger to others.

If the perpetrator disengages then starts back torward the officer he has to assume that if re-engaged he could lose his gun and it could be used on him, so he MUST shoot.

Officers recieve only minimal trainging in the use of their fists when defending against an attack because you can't "certifiy" a person in the use of his fists. You can certify them in the use of pepper spray, baton, taser, and firearm. The need to be certified is a civil liabilty requirement to reduce exposure to lawsuit.

The above tactics were not developed because someone thought they sounded good, they were implemented after hundreds of police officers were killed.

THE REASON THAT IT APPEARS THAT BEING A POLICE OFFICER IS NOT A DANGEROUS JOB IS BECUASE OF THIS TRAINING AND THESE TACTICS MORE POLICE OFFICERS ARE SURVIVING VIOLENT ENCOUNTERS.

This was NOT the case during the 60's and 70's.

If you do not want to be shot by the police...comply with their orders. If you think they wrong, address it LATER.
 
chai2
 
  4  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 06:04 pm
I've never heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous.

Didn't bother to read past that.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 07:23 pm
@chai2,
chai2 wrote:

I've never heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous.

Didn't bother to read past that.


Actually, there was a lot of good stuff in there, Chai...although I also thought the opening was nonsense. I've NEVER heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous...and I doubt he has either.

Lot of dated stuff...the 21 feet rule.

And lots of assumptions that seem aimed at the Ferguson episode...that may or may not be true.

But there was some good stuff in there.

Last but not least: I agree with him about obeying a cop.

If a cop says, "sit down"...do not even look for a chair. Just sit!

If you have a problem...deal with it later.
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 07:34 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I've NEVER heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous...and I doubt he has either.


Doesnt bother you to be wrong so often?

21 foot rule outdated??? Since when???


Previous • Post: # 5,743,441 • Next
bobsal u1553115
1
Replyreport Mon 18 Aug, 2014 08:46 am
Just how dangerous is being a cop??
Not as dangerous as most people think...

Just how dangerous is being a cop??

Most of you have no doubt been subjected in the last few days to right-wing pundits or friends droning on about the supposed "dangers" of policing. That we have to understand that the officer may have thought he was in danger when he executed Michael Brown. Well here is a controversial statement: I don't care how dangerous your job is. It was the trade-off you willingly entered into when you were given a lethal weapon to use at your discretion and the power to assert complete authority over a citizen at your will. In 2009, the Census of Fatal Occupational Industries compiled a list of the most dangerous jobs in the country. Numbers are deaths/100,000.

Fishermen: 128.9
Logging workers: 116.7
Aircraft pilots: 72.4
Iron and steelworkers: 46.4
Farmers and ranchers: 39.5
Garbage collectors: 36.8
Roofers: 34.4
Electrical power line installation/repair: 29.8
Truck drivers: 22.8
Oil and gas extraction: 21.9
Taxi drivers: 19.3
Drinking establishment employees: 17.0
Construction workers: 16.0
Police and deputies: 15.6



giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Aug, 2014 08:11 pm
@chai2,
Quote:

Didn't bother to read past that.


Apparently you dont read whats posted here either. WAY TO BE ENLIGHTENED!!!!
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 08:02 am
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Quote:
I've NEVER heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous...and I doubt he has either.


Doesnt bother you to be wrong so often?


I am not wrong all that often here in A2K...and when I am, it doesn't bother me at all.

Just a part of being human.


Quote:
21 foot rule outdated??? Since when???


Since a long time. 21 feet is MUCH TOO CLOSE. Read up on it here.

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weapons/articles/102828-Edged-Weapon-Defense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/


giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 02:16 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Well I'm all for extending it...but most places still teach 21 feet. What it usually takes to change something is a copper being killed unfortunately.

Oh, and I except your apology...as it were.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 02:29 pm
@giujohn,
I dident read past that either and I'll bet a lot of other people declined to be brain washed.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 02:37 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Well I'm all for extending it...but most places still teach 21 feet. What it usually takes to change something is a copper being killed unfortunately.

Oh, and I except your apology...as it were.


The apology is yours to offer, John.

You apparently assumed I was heading in the other direction with my remark about the 21 feet being dated.

The 21 feet IS DATED.

But I don't expect an apology from you...although I would love to understand what you think I ought to be apologizing for.
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 02:50 pm
@Frank Apisa,
No Frank, I mean for saying that I was lying about someone saying the JOB wasnt dangerous...dont play dumb.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 02:54 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

No Frank, I mean for saying that I was lying about someone saying the JOB wasnt dangerous...dont play dumb.


I SAID THAT?????

Can you show me where?
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 02:58 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I've NEVER heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous...and I doubt he has either.


Unless this is some type of new language, I believe this more than qualifies as being called a liar.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 03:10 pm
@giujohn,
giujohn wrote:

Quote:
I've NEVER heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous...and I doubt he has either.


Unless this is some type of new language, I believe this more than qualifies as being called a liar.


I did not call you a liar.

If I did...show me where I did.

You wrote:


Quote:
I have to laugh when people say being a cop is not all that dangerous.


I responded:

Quote:
I've NEVER heard anyone say being a cop isn't dangerous...and I doubt he has either.


I MOST ASSUREDLY never have heard anyone say that.

And I MOST ASSUREDLY think you have never heard it either.

That does not mean I am calling you a liar. You are using ( a rather awkward) "turn of phrase" to make a point...for whatever reason.

If you actually took that to mean I was calling you a liar...

...I DO APOLOGIZE.
giujohn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 23 Aug, 2014 03:55 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I did...and apology accepted.
0 Replies
 
room109
 
  1  
Reply Sat 6 Sep, 2014 11:06 am
@giujohn,
too political
0 Replies
 
 

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