Why aren't feminists speaking out about this???

Is he really 30????? Holy Crap, it might be hopeless for him. I figured he was still an undergrad, with the social awareness of a 15 year old.

Women unlike men should not take note of a person of the opposite sex that look good to them if they do not approved of his life and how he had live it?

I see no real reason at all why women can not enjoy and even have sexual fantasies over a good looking male body without needing to approval of that person life.

Your seems a very uptight person indeed.

He's 32. But, if I didn't know his age, I'd think he was closer to adolescence too, based on his level of social awareness and his rather limited perspective.

Who really cares if some people, male or female, find convicts attractive? Some of them are physically attractive. This is an issue he thinks feminists should be commenting on? Hillary Clinton should definitely not address serious world issues, and instead immediately turn her attention to all the dingbats who choose to post on Facebook about how hot some convict looks in his mug shot. I mean, what's really important, the fact that the Middle East is both imploding and exploding at the moment, that women in Pakistan are still being stoned to death, that Nigerian schoolgirls were kidnapped because females shouldn't have an education, or what some people think of Meeks' mug shot? Feminists just don't understand what's important, the way Buttermilk does.

What's really nonsensical, beside being hypocritical, is Buttermilk's anger when women--including some feminists--do speak up, as they did in response to mass murderer Elliot Rodger's misogynistic rant in the manifesto he left behind. Buttermilk not only denies Rodger's misogyny, despite the fact Rodger could not have made it any clearer, he also chooses to deny the fact that Rodger found support for such misogynistic views on some men's Web sites, and he ignores the fact that the sort of violence and harassment that Rodger exhibited toward women, even before his killing spree, as well as his sense of entitlement to women's bodies, is something that many women have had to deal with, and that issue feminist activists do address.

Buttermilk doesn't want to hear from feminists when they address misogyny, he doesn't want to pay attention to the female voices who spoke out on hashtag #yesallwomen about their own experiences with misogyny-- http://time.com/114043/yesallwomen-hashtag-santa-barbara-shooting/ --and he certainly doesn't feel he should speak out against misogyny--he tries to deny that it exists as a cultural and social reality.

Other men are not that blind, and, rather than cast aspersions on feminism, they take a good look at some of the anti-female rhetoric that comes out of the men's rights movement.
http://time.com/134152/the-toxic-appeal-of-the-mens-rights-movement/

Maybe when he grows up, Buttermilk will realize that he cannot define and interpret women's experiences for them, or decide for them what's important to them, or engage in any of the other patriarchal and patronizing attitudes toward women that might get him, quite appropriately, labeled a misogynist.

Personally, I don't care whose photo some women choose to fawn over on the internet, that sort of thing is absolute drivel, and it's their own business who they find attractive or sexy, and no one else's.

What really strikes me funny is that BillRM chastised him. That is absolutely the cherry on the sundae. I still have a hard time believing he's 30, seriously with his adolescent attitude, if he isn't 15-22, but claims he's 30 he has a lot in common with the older mysoginists who apologize for rape, women taking jobs that are divinely ordained to belong to men.

In my experience, men who had decent men as fathers and had respect for their mothers are not at all threatened or offended that women can be well educated, hold responsible positions, or be smart enough to raise their children. But if he truly resents or underestimates women, he is in for a pot load of disappointment. The idea that if a woman sees herself as capable or smart, that automatically means she doesn't respect men is utter nonsense. I've worked with many men and women who were crucial in instructing me, mentoring me or influencing me. I have nothing but respect and admiration for those generous people.

It doesn't sound like buttermilk has been able to distinguish which of those 'old timers' would have helped him grow and mature and become successful. That's too bad. Perhaps he's been too fascinated/obsessed with shallow. I think that's his albatross.

Why????

To me Firefly and her supporters are the ones viewing most women as poor helpless children/victims and not myself who view them with the same capabilities as men and having all the rights and responsibility of adulthood.

My wife is an outstanding example of a full adult, as in her career she worked herself up to a deputy director of a northern state CPS with over 800 state employees reporting to her.

Could not be prouder of my wife and amazed and happy that she picked me as her mate and husband.

Yeah, that stumps me as well.

Agree and that is the reason I ID so very strongly with the 1990s romance movie Notting Hill where a small London book store owner have the most famous/successful actress in the world fall in love with him.

Since my opinion obviously dovetails with every woman you ever oppressed with your immature, entitled attentions, as well as the opinions of every woman who has spoken here, I think it *should* matter to you. You're the one warming the bench on the sidelines of happy, healthy romantic relationships.... Keep your nose pressed against the window looking in if you please. Or listen and learn. Your call.

I have been fortunate to know wonderful men. Yeh, I know none of us are in any way fully wonderful, but there are several I put in that category. Some of the wonderfuls are still friends and some are not, loss of addresses, but I haven't changed my mind re regard.

Meantime, I come to a2k and read buttermilk.

I'm not against him, but I think he is whomping against academic women most of us don't know, while not listening to the mass of women who do care about rights.

And whining while doing that.

I think he likes to yank, talk spite.

I love this.

The men with vision rather than cast aspersions on feminism... cast aspirations on men

And since I felt compelled to note in the recent thread devoted to bashing Setanta that doing so was not cool, I should add that I don't think gang-bashing of a member in a thread devoted to any topic is cool either. Same petty sophomoric tone.

Jesus spent a terrible long night before his death,unable to sleep and racked with loneliness as his disciples fell asleep,
But next day on the cross, as he slipped into death his tired pain-filled eyes saw a host of loyal women who'd stuck with him to the end..
"Jesus cried out with a loud voice, and breathed his last. There were also women looking on from afar, among whom were Mary Magdalene and Salome, who followed him and ministered to him when he was in Galilee, and many other women who came up with him to Jerusalem" (Mark 15:37)
Some of his disciples ran away in fear of the Romans, but the women stuck with him to the end, giving him the last womanly comfort they could by making sure he never died alone..

I don't think that Fell was casting aspersions on men in that article--he was commenting on the vitriolic language and hate directed toward women, particularly feminists, that can be found on many of the so-called men's rights Web sites--attitudes and language that I think he appropriately called "toxic" because they can contribute to actual violence. He in no way was directing his comments to most men, nor was he saying most men harbor such attitudes or engage in hate speech toward women.

And, it's interesting to note that some of these groups have tried to tone down their speech because of all the negative attention and publicity they received in the wake of mass murderer Elliot Rodger's revelations that he had been involved with some of those sites. Just before the first meeting of the International Conference on Men's Issue, held a little over a week ago, A Voice for Men’s Paul Elam e-mailed ticket holders to warn them that anyone “trash-talking women [or] making violent statements, even jokingly” would be summarily expelled. The movement’s enemies, he said, “will be looking for anything they can to hurt us with. They will be listening, eavesdropping, and if they can, gathering things to harm us with.”

So, I think people like Fell, and others, may have done a good thing by further exposing the vitriol on some of those sites if it's made them more circumspect about making contemptuous statements about women, or promoting violence toward them.


I think this is more disagreement with the OP's point of view, and his attitudes, than it is a "gang-bashing". He's mainly just not getting a lot of agreement with what he's saying.

FLAT OUT ******* LIE! It has been PROVEN OVER AND OVER again that Rogers had NO INVOLVEMENT in ANY men's rights groups AT ALL! YOU ARE A LIAR FIREFLY!



Paul Elam is a very intelligent, thoughtful person. Do you understand how hypocritical you're being? How is him trying to have a civil forum to speak about men's issues "hateful"? Why should freedom of speech be hindered? Just because you don't agree with it???

You are the walking, talking definition of hypocrisy firefly...

Buttermilk, your views in this thread are entirely justified, and don't let hypocritical bigots like firefly tell you otherwise.

Women DO like dangerous men. Some women REALLY like being treated poorly. Ted Bundy had women writing him love letters in prison. The Boston bomber WAS on the cover of Rolling Stone simply because he's a "cute boy". And let's not forget that Justin Bieber is considered attractive by women also...

The way the female mind works in regards to what they find attractive is very irrational and illogical. It's a complicated subject and it seems you have a lot more to learn about it, but don't let feminists derided you for pointing out how messed up it is.

Yeah, hell-raising actor Oliver Reed once said-"Sure I knock my women around a bit, but they don't complain".
Obviously it stems back to prehistoric times when womens animal instincts drew them to the biggest toughest neanderthal on the block to father and protect their children.
It still happens today of course and I feel sorry for women whose caveman crawls under the bed every time there's a thunderstorm whimpering- "Ugh...me afraid...ugh...gods are angry..."

Oh yea woke up to read personal attacks ok. So instead of attacking my views, my supplied evidence, or even acknowledge an en passé, now you want to personally attack me? Ok. Two can play that game.

Ok, since this thread is not about the OP but about me, I'm giving you ladies the opportunity to put me on ignore because my response will be vulgar, insulting and crude. Only reason my response is thus is because you guys went from the OP to me.

1) My age has nothing to do with OP. My ideas were clear and concise and no matter how much you disagree, your responses confirm you understand my view.

2) How I look has nothing to do with OP. I'm not romeo, I have a very nice looking body and all 200 of the women within these last 6 month can confirm that. But I'll get to that later.

Now if you were mature enough to just stay on my views and not me, we'd be fine but since your comments made it about me then looks like this thread is going to be about mudslinging

I find it hard to believe you think you are so cleverly circumspect that people would not realize what your real complaint is. Maybe you just need to grow up. Congratulations on the devoted admiration by 200 women who think you're hot, but if you have constant affirmation of your absolute perfectness, why do you care that some thug gets fan mail or is obsessed over by seriously disturbed young women. Surely you are not looking for a shallow woman, that's been one of your biggist complaints.

If you could be honest one minute, you would admit no one criticized your appearance. I will tell you, however, that a man or woman can be out-of-this world gorgeous, but if they open their mouth to speak and can only spew stupid, self-involved nonsense, it becomes impossible to remember how beautiful or handsome they may be. Posters are addressing your narrow views, and as I said before, I am truly shocked that you are in your 30's, I have plenty of experience raising teen boys and you sound much more like an adolescent than a man approaching middle age.

I truly hope you get a handle on life, because life is very difficult for perpetual adolescents. My neighbors are 72 and 77 and they have 3 grown children. The oldest is 46, and still cannot seem to support his family, so his parents pay for the oldest child's braces. The middle child is 42, she moved back with her parents at least 5 years ago, hasn't held a steady job, but she has had a ton of health problems. The only child completely independent is about 38, married, 2 children and apparently is a very successful real estate agent. So only 1 of 3 children will be able to take care of theirselves if the parents die.

So unless you start to deal with the harsh realities of being a grown man or woman, your entire life will nothing more than a litany of grudges, complaints, stewing over imaginary slights and only a meager amount of satisfaction. Life can be very harsh, all of us have had extreme difficulties we have had to deal with, but we deal with it and move on.

Your big issue is you think 'Feminists' should be organizing something, because a thug is getting attention from stupid girls. I don't know what you expect to happen, but frankly most of the women here have bigger fish to fry. If you want to obsess over the unfairness of it all, enjoy. But I'm betting that thug will be yesterday's news, and he only is interested in crime, which normally is limited because of the jail time involved. Do you honestly think, that this bozo is important enough that women are going to feel compelled to drop everything and rail about how unfair all this is? Women today are holding down jobs, making sure the kids get an education and often they are responsible for caring for infirm elderly parents. I know we did, we cared for my mother-in-law, my mother and my father. But I was lucky because my husband is an adult, and it would have been extremely hard to do it without him. We believe we have a great partnership. I hope for you some day you become smart enough to find someone you respect like she respects you, and leave behind all these notions of gender war.

Consider it what you will.

It's as if Jesus knew women would always be there for him at the end, which is why he made sure he was always there for them when he was alive..
Here's a little tale i've woven around the 'Woman at the Well' incident in John chapter 4 -

Leonora had had a rough life. A string of lovers had treated her bad, and now she'd ended up with another here in this remote village in old Samaria miles from anywhere, going out of her skull with boredom and feeling as if life was passing her by.
Then her latest fancy man shouted from the other room telling her to go get some water,so she trudged wearily down the road in the sweltering heat to the well.
A few travellers who she'd never seen before were sitting there in the shade of the trees looking tired, yet good-humouredly talking among themselves, and one of them smiled and asked her to draw some water for them.
He chatted with her about "living water" and other matters, and about her poor track record with men who used her like a doormat.
She told him how she yearned for the bright lights of Jerusalem where things happened and where it said in the ancient scriptures the Messiah would appear, though if and when that would be, nobody knew.
She said she liked to dream what he'd be like, a warrior king maybe, in bright silver armour riding a proud white horse, and that he'd explain everything to the people once and for all.
"Huh! i'll never see the Messiah stuck out here" she said as a tear rolled down her cheek, "when i die that's it,nobody'll remember me or even know i existed, and he wouldn't want to talk to a nobody like me anyway.."
The man gently brushed away her tear with his fingertips, lifted her chin, gazed straight into her eyes and softly replied with a smile:- "I'm him. He's talking to you now.."
And the woman in that tiny remote village long ago will be remembered in the Bible until the end of time..




"The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."
Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he." (John 4:26)