Re: If you think racism isn't part of the Conservative minds
Quote:If you think racism isn't part of the human mindset, you'd be wrong.
Racism sweeps across all races, nationalities, political parties...where there are people there are degrees of racism.
I think you are correct LG, there are no boundrie.
edgarblythe wrote:It is obvious the GOP is trying to win over black voters, but they can't do that simply by appointing some blacks to positions of influence; they would have to change their philosophy also and that ain't going to happen. The basic thrust of Republican policies is to keep the money flowing upward. Nowhere is there parity for the poor, black or white.
We won't change our philosophy. We'll just make sure everyone knows what it is.
When you throw out gifts, people appear out of the woodwork. You may find they won't hang around after the goods are gone--and don't kid yourself that you've established a relationship. Cultivating a true relationship based on mutual respect, where you expect equally from one another won't bring them in droves, but at least the relationships that are forged are real and based on something lasting.
The GOP isn't going to entice non-whites by promises and special segregating programs. We will forward programs that help ALL Americans.
We don't want to co-opt a special interest group for votes. We want to include all like minded people of all races.
Trust me, the GOP is not about the flow of money upward. That is a tired old stereotype that doesn't fit anymore.
The GOP is about one set of laws fitting all. All murders are hate crimes. Murdered homosexuals are no more dead than murdered wives and children. Civil rights are
human rights.
The Dems categorize you by sex, race, sexual orientation, and throw money at your special group. The GOP says we are one category: human.
Well, if the GOP is all you claim, how come Judge Pickering's decisions did not actually include civil rights? Or, perhaps they did. Depends on who was civil to him.
And if the GOP says we are one category - human (an admirable statement) - how come their congressional humaness seems to show only white bread males? Of course, we now have several white females in the senate, but the look of the GOP is white male.
And that, fair or not, lends itself to the perception of racial discrimination. Because that is what is seen. And the perception of all goodies flowing upward in this GOP admin (twasn't always thus) does have some vaild causes. No amount of double talk changes the view of who benefits from the proposed tax cuts.
mamajuana--
Glad you joined the conversation.
About the tax cuts: everyone benefits. The Democrats latched onto this issue, because focusing on a few words easily makes people believe the tax cut only benefits the rich.
Everyone gets a percentage of their taxes cut. Poor, middies and the rich. I don't know if you are a happy capitalist or if you lean socialist, but for me, though I am lower/middle middle class, I would NEVER support the rich being left out of a tax cut. Alot of democrats lean Socialist.
Their tax cut rate is lower than ours, but because they make so much, their 3% adds up to more than our savings, even though our tax cut percentage is higher. So, as a group, the rich save more, but individually, the lower classes save a higher percentage of their incomes. To a capitalist, this is fair. To a Socialist, it seems not to be.
The Dems are manipulating their wording of this, and there are alot of people running around thinking it is solely a tax cut for the rich. There is double talk about the tax cut, but it is emanating from the Dem party.
[/color]As far as the racial make-up of the GOP, we haven't been able to interest a large number of blacks in our party, as of yet. We are growing with women, and we are very proud that our positions of inner circle power have more blacks than any Dem administration. As the people of color watch Pelosi give away positions of power to her white California cronies, overlooking blacks, they are beginning to see how they are used and excused until the next election cycle, they will begin to take a closer look at the reality of the GOP. Hopefully, many will find we want them between elections, as well as during them.
Re: If you think racism isn't part of the Conservative minds
Lash Goth wrote:
Bush is preparing programs to benefit the needy based on need, not skin color.
There are increasing numbers of black Americans who prefer equal treatment, and take offense to "special programs", designed to continue their seperateness based on the color of their skin.
I would love to see any program that Bush is "preparing", based on needs.
Do you have any links that support your second premises???
Your post to Mamajuana looks like something out of an RNC position paper.
Anon
I'm watching "Angry White Men" on Donohue. What a hoot! Pat Robertson is defending the plight of the white man who is being discriminated against. Funny how these angry white men don't like getting what they've dished out for centuries! Poor babies!
All the hulalaboo about how these poor white creatures are being cheated out of jobs because they are being replaced by mexicans!
All these poor white creatures being cheated out of higher education because the blacks and other races who aren't as highly qualified but are chosen due to affirmative action.
However, when examples of white based decisions are made, there isn't a whole lot to be said. When the entry of George Bush to college with his illustrious "C" average was mentioned, there was a whole lot of humming and hawing going on!
The conservatives pander to these poor white creatures, playing the race card, something they love to accuse the Democrats of doing with the blacks.
Anon
Every decision by the GOP that I have seen leads to more for the rich, less for the poor. The tax cuts are only secondary to the vast grab going on under the present administration.
The administration is conducting a study to decide if the lower income taxpayer is paying enough of their share with the idea of raising their taxes. The minimum tax bracket which will click in in next year will drive the idea that the rich aren't getting a break like a knife in the heart.
Re: If you think racism isn't part of the Conservative minds
Anon wrote:Lash Goth wrote:
Bush is preparing programs to benefit the needy based on need, not skin color.
There are increasing numbers of black Americans who prefer equal treatment, and take offense to "special programs", designed to continue their seperateness based on the color of their skin.
I would love to see any program that Bush is "preparing", based on needs.
Do you have any links that support your second premises???
Your post to Mamajuana looks like something out of an RNC position paper.
Anon
The GOP is planning to unveil a slate of programs early this new year. I'm looking forward to seeing what they have come up with. I do know at least one addresses healthcare for the needy.
The matter of the tax percentages are public record. I can't remember the percentage cut the middies get, but I do remember it to be appr 11% (certainly more than the richies' 3%). If someone finds a link showing this is wrong, you will have my sincere apology, plus a quiet absence from Politics for one week, as my self-imposed punishment.
Neither party has deafened the world with good ideas.
I'm thinking if mamajuana, or you, tried to explain the reason you are Dem, it would look a lot like the DNC official party line. It is interesting when people debate issues. When they just make a meaningless, partisan swipe, it is a waste of time.
I think the cow-towing Democratic policies have ruined minority family life, and pushed blacks further back, instead of bringing them forward.
Are there Dems who believe
any tax cut for the rich is wrong? Any that wax wistfully of communism? The possibility of American Socialism?
Curious.
The key word being "unveiling" -- they certainly have had a very dense veil over just where they stand and I'd like to see what both sides look like for a change. As they almost look alike, it would seem that both sides are equally at fault for racism and the minorities being helf back. I am personally not holding my breath for the burnt offerings.
Let's hear more about the specifics of those programs you refer to, LG, including supporting hyper-links if available.
Your questions deserve their own thread, BTW.
socialism=government controls the means of production
capitolism=the means of production controls the government
fascism=government selects the means of production that controls the government (current governmental model)
Lightwizard gets it. Let's not delude ourselves by attributing "racism" and other such "code" words to one party alone, they both are guilty of doing what is necessary to remain in power.
"Buying" votes with tax cuts is no different than "buying" votes with entitlement programs.
"Fascism"?!?!
Please!!! Somebody's hyperbole is showing....
Goth:
IF I were a Republican, I would pat you on the bottom and commend you for being such a good boy with such fine values as protecting my wealth for me. Making sure I get my tax cuts because I'm so worthy. Working in your lower middle class lifestyle making sure my rights are protected. What a gent! You keep protecting me from those nasty liberals who want to take my money!! Huzzah, Huzzah for you!
INSTEAD, I'm going to tell you, as a liberal, that I am making the money I am because I am a 100% capitalist. I'm not a communist, I'm not a strict socialist, although I find I have socialist leanings. I think it is hilarious that Republicans always think that liberals have got to be communists, socialists, looking to get something for nothing, trying to destroy the American way of life. What a misperception! What folly! Straight RNC speal! How nice of you to spew it up so well! Your Republican programmers would be so proud of you!
I think that there are a lot of reasons people squallar in poverty. Some are really lazy, and that can't be helped.
Some are content to be poor, it's a vicitim thing, can't do anything about those either.
Then there are those that had no chance out of the womb. These are not just black folks, they can be any color. On the Donohue program I mentioned earlier, they were taking calls from all over the country. They had this one call from a good ole boy in South Carolina. This poor soul was white, angry, and dumb as a rock. Just listening to him made me want to cry!
He was bemoaning the mexicans coming in and taking away the jobs which belonged to him because he was an american. He said the construction jobsites are just filled with mexicans. (There was also a similiar call from Washington).
Donohue asked a simple question, who should you be mad at, the mexicans, or the employers that are hiring them?? These jobs take no education, take no real skills, no real smarts. That's why someone who can't speak the language can come in and do them!
The key is education, knowledge, and hard work! You can't replace these elements. They can't be made good by being white. They can't be repaired by the Republican party. The Republican have no interest in you improving yourself, because they need you where you are!
If you want to drag out of poverty, or whereever you are, the key is self improvement. Make yourself better, work hard to do it! The other side of that is to have the availability of programs to help those who want to drag themselves out be able to do so! I have to go now, but I'll be back later to go into what those programs should be!
Don't worry about helping me protect my wealth, that's my job! Make yourself better, and defend yourself, I DON'T NEED YOUR HELP!! The Republican wealthy are making a fool of you, and they are yukkiing it up while they are doing it! Wake up! Quit being a lackey!!
Anon
Anon wrote:Goth:
IF I were a Republican, I would pat you on the bottom and commend you for being such a good boy with such fine values as protecting my wealth for me.
A pat on my bottom would leave you drawing back a nub. I am a woman, and this is generally what happens when uninvited bottom pats occur.
Making sure I get my tax cuts because I'm so worthy. Working in your lower middle class lifestyle making sure my rights are protected.I am very pleased with my lifestyle, and commend you on yours. We both earned what we have, and I do not expect you to contribute more than is fair to the country's coffers. If you choose to give more, that is also commendable.
INSTEAD, I'm going to tell you, as a liberal, that I am making the money I am because I am a 100% capitalist. I'm not a communist, I'm not a strict socialist, although I find I have socialist leanings.
Thought so.
I think it is hilarious that Republicans always think that liberals have got to be communists, socialists, looking to get something for nothing, trying to destroy the American way of life. What a misperception! What folly! Straight RNC speal! How nice of you to spew it up so well! Your Republican programmers would be so proud of you!
See your earlier admission that you lean Socialist, and note that I did not make any accusations against this, merely stated I thought it was the case, which you were so kind to confirm, at least in your case. Didn't even hint that I thought this was an evil plan to destroy the American way of life. You will find that referring to my actual statements, instead of making them up will keep this conversation on topic.
I think that there are a lot of reasons people squallar in poverty. Some are really lazy, and that can't be helped.
Some are content to be poor, it's a vicitim thing, can't do anything about those either.
Then there are those that had no chance out of the womb. These are not just black folks, they can be any color. On the Donohue program I mentioned earlier, they were taking calls from all over the country. They had this one call from a good ole boy in South Carolina. This poor soul was white, angry, and dumb as a rock. Just listening to him made me want to cry!
He was bemoaning the mexicans coming in and taking away the jobs which belonged to him because he was an american. He said the construction jobsites are just filled with mexicans. (There was also a similiar call from Washington).
Donohue asked a simple question, who should you be mad at, the mexicans, or the employers that are hiring them?? These jobs take no education, take no real skills, no real smarts. That's why someone who can't speak the language can come in and do them!
The key is education, knowledge, and hard work! You can't replace these elements. They can't be made good by being white. They can't be repaired by the Republican party. The Republican have no interest in you improving yourself, because they need you where you are!
If you want to drag out of poverty, or whereever you are, the key is self improvement. Make yourself better, work hard to do it! The other side of that is to have the availability of programs to help those who want to drag themselves out be able to do so! I have to go now, but I'll be back later to go into what those programs should be!
Don't worry about helping me protect my wealth, that's my job! Make yourself better, and defend yourself, I DON'T NEED YOUR HELP!! The Republican wealthy are making a fool of you, and they are yukkiing it up while they are doing it! Wake up! Quit being a lackey!!
I have no intention of protecting your money. I am doing the same thing you are. Speaking my opinion. (I think they still let people do that here.)
PDiddie-- I thought the questions would flesh out reasons for stances on the topic, but if not accepted as such, please excuse and ignore.
Lash, your questions are valid and engaging; they merit another thread.
Lash, Anon,and dadeo: Careful with the personal epithets.
I enjoy all of you and don't want to see us go down that path of that OTHER place... :wink:
It's obvious to all of us that you can each make your points without the invective. I know, sometimes it's hard...
PDiddie wrote:Lash, your questions are valid and engaging; they merit another thread.
Lash, Anon,and dadeo: Careful with the personal epithets.
I enjoy all of you and don't want to see us go down that path of that OTHER place... :wink:
It's obvious to all of us that you can each make your points without the invective. I know, sometimes it's hard...
Please show me where I have used an epithet, or said anything untoward.
